Hafidha's Crack

[BeatriceEagle]

I cannot vouch for the exact sequence, but:

She had a run in with Hodgkin's, and escaped.
Her finace dumped her.
She developed Gates Syndrome.

It's the order of the first two that I'm not certain of (I believe it was mentioned early on, but I'm feeling too lazy to track down the reference) but I suspect it's the order above, as having the major trigger being her fiance dumping her has a horrible resonance with Eric's death. (The funeral scene in one of the season two episodes refers to much of this.)

I'm pretty sure, at the very least, her fiance dumped her after she converted, given the following quote from "Knock on Coffins":

Most of the time, she had a pretty good line of patter in convincing herself that her new job and her new gifts made up for what they'd cost her: a job she'd loved, a normal life expectancy, reasonable grocery bills, and a guy who couldn't handle it when his lover started seeing and doing things other people didn't.

I tend to believe that the cancer was or was part of the crack, though I freely admit that I do so partially because it fits with my pet theory (which involves several long jumps to conclusions).  The other part is because we haven't been given any good alternatives.

ETA: Although there is an interesting line, somewhere in this conversation, about breakthrough at a time of great need.  There are only a couple of gammas who we know how they discovered their abilities (Melinda Grossman, a pretty good idea for Justin Saito, etc.) and none of their breakthroughs had that quality, that I can think of.  But it's pretty much the defining trait of Hafs and Chaz's breakthroughs.  In as much as we're still using "gamma" and "beta" as categories, it's interesting to think that there might be a difference between the way the two kinds of anomaloid gain their second-stage powers.  It sort of speaks to something about the way powers develop vs. the descent of the "wants to hurt people" part of the anomaly; like, they're connected, but on separate tracks.  (Think, for instance, of Melinda Grossman, who was hearing the gun talk to her long before she could shoot people with it.)  There's some connecting thought or implication that I'm missing here.  I've sort of been idly turning this thing over in my head for a while.

[DavidG]

I believe most if not all of the eggs are linked from the Reading Order page.

Gaah! I hadn't noticed that, nor that I'd missed the egg for the Living Word website. That rendition of the Ode to Joy is truly disturbing, crackworthy even.

[jeffy]

While (if!) we're fiddling, it would be nice if CAPTCHAs weren't required for links pointing elsewhere on shadowunit.org.  It looks like there's a regexp that affects it; I'll do some more research to find exactly what's needed if TPsTB are willing to switch it and if it's not obvious how.

I apparently had found it but hadn't noticed until I started closing tabs!  I *believe* it's here:

http://wiki.shadowunit.org/index.php/MediaWiki:Captcha-addurl-whitelist

(though I do not have the ability to change it.)

Example (the one I just found) here.

I tried setting that up just now, but it isn't working. If you can take a look and pm me if you see what the problem is I'd be obliged. The captchas for shadowunit.org links drove me batty before I got given godlike powers and became exempt.

[eschatonic]

ETA: Although there is an interesting line, somewhere in this conversation, about breakthrough at a time of great need.  There are only a couple of gammas who we know how they discovered their abilities (Melinda Grossman, a pretty good idea for Justin Saito, etc.) and none of their breakthroughs had that quality, that I can think of.  But it's pretty much the defining trait of Hafs and Chaz's breakthroughs.  In as much as we're still using "gamma" and "beta" as categories, it's interesting to think that there might be a difference between the way the two kinds of anomaloid gain their second-stage powers.  It sort of speaks to something about the way powers develop vs. the descent of the "wants to hurt people" part of the anomaly; like, they're connected, but on separate tracks.  (Think, for instance, of Melinda Grossman, who was hearing the gun talk to her long before she could shoot people with it.)  There's some connecting thought or implication that I'm missing here.  I've sort of been idly turning this thing over in my head for a while.

I'm going to add Susan Greenberg to the list of "converted at a time of great need." Chaz notes somewhere that the Anomaly makes it easier for the host to keep him/herself alive, mainly by providing strength, physical toughness, etc. In Susan's case almost the entire manifestation is focused on stopping her from dying of anorexia.

[BeatriceEagle]

ETA: Although there is an interesting line, somewhere in this conversation, about breakthrough at a time of great need.  There are only a couple of gammas who we know how they discovered their abilities (Melinda Grossman, a pretty good idea for Justin Saito, etc.) and none of their breakthroughs had that quality, that I can think of.  But it's pretty much the defining trait of Hafs and Chaz's breakthroughs.  In as much as we're still using "gamma" and "beta" as categories, it's interesting to think that there might be a difference between the way the two kinds of anomaloid gain their second-stage powers.  It sort of speaks to something about the way powers develop vs. the descent of the "wants to hurt people" part of the anomaly; like, they're connected, but on separate tracks.  (Think, for instance, of Melinda Grossman, who was hearing the gun talk to her long before she could shoot people with it.)  There's some connecting thought or implication that I'm missing here.  I've sort of been idly turning this thing over in my head for a while.

I'm going to add Susan Greenberg to the list of "converted at a time of great need." Chaz notes somewhere that the Anomaly makes it easier for the host to keep him/herself alive, mainly by providing strength, physical toughness, etc. In Susan's case almost the entire manifestation is focused on stopping her from dying of anorexia.

Ooh, that's a good point.  (And interesting, too, since Susannah's one of those people who could screw with our categories.)

[antongarou]

ETA: Although there is an interesting line, somewhere in this conversation, about breakthrough at a time of great need.  There are only a couple of gammas who we know how they discovered their abilities (Melinda Grossman, a pretty good idea for Justin Saito, etc.) and none of their breakthroughs had that quality, that I can think of.  But it's pretty much the defining trait of Hafs and Chaz's breakthroughs.  In as much as we're still using "gamma" and "beta" as categories, it's interesting to think that there might be a difference between the way the two kinds of anomaloid gain their second-stage powers.  It sort of speaks to something about the way powers develop vs. the descent of the "wants to hurt people" part of the anomaly; like, they're connected, but on separate tracks.  (Think, for instance, of Melinda Grossman, who was hearing the gun talk to her long before she could shoot people with it.)  There's some connecting thought or implication that I'm missing here.  I've sort of been idly turning this thing over in my head for a while.

Um, are you referring to this?

Something a friend of mind mentioned and might be relevant: Hafidha's second breakthrough("Knock on Coffins") happens when she has to get results *now* in order to save someone. Wanna bet that her first was linked to something similar? The girl has a worse hero complex then Hotch(the team leader in Criminal Minds), and that's saying something.

Because if so it isn't a difference between Gammas and Betas-it is difference between people. Although I'd be willing to lay bets that people with hero complex will tend to breakthrough as  Betas- mostly because their focus is on saving other people. The thing I noted was that since Hafidhas second stressor was the need to *save* someone(it's very obvious in "Knock on Coffins"), and since it has been noted she had "a job she loved and a fiance" as of her first conversion I think it would have been something similar. The third(that broke her) was very different.

My friend's theory is that the difference between Beta and Gamma is the same as between people who have adaptive and nonadaptive response to mental stress(i.e. acute vs. chronic PTSD), with the Gammas being the latter. Some of the key differences in these cases, from what she says, is the ability to find sense in the situation(mythology), believe you can do something and hold on to other people. I think the difference between Betas and Gammas is twofold:

1)conscious control of your power

2)holding onto people

If you don't have both you have a Gamma- either someone who is dangerous the same way a violent psychotic with a gun is dangerous(i.e. not necessarily meaning harm, but doing it) or someone who's essentially a psychopath with superpowers. This leads me to the belief Eddie(Dyson's brother) and Hafidha might be salvageable at some point.

[BeatriceEagle]

Because if so it isn't a difference between Gammas and Betas-it is difference between people.

Which is a totally valid theory, but not in any way the only valid theory.  I don't think it's true, because, well, I'm not sure to what degree I buy into the beta/gamma breakdown, and also because it seems like we've seen plenty of gammas who had no wish whatsoever to hurt people, but were completely aware that they were doing so (I'm thinking here of Dave Schumacher in particular).  In which case, I want to know what it is about the Anomaly that makes them do it.

Anyway, I've already said what I think about what caused Hafidha's first conversion--she may have had a fiance and a job she loved, but she also had cancer, and we've seen far less traumatic cracks than that.

[tylik]

Most of the time, she had a pretty good line of patter in convincing herself that her new job and her new gifts made up for what they'd cost her: a job she'd loved, a normal life expectancy, reasonable grocery bills, and a guy who couldn't handle it when his lover started seeing and doing things other people didn't.

Ah, good one.

[Felicia1066]

I seem to remember a line somewhere (LJ?) about Reyes sitting by her bedside when she was in the hospital for her cancer treatments, even when the people you'd expect to do just that - presumably the fiancé - didn't.

[Lioness]

My friend's theory is that the difference between Beta and Gamma is the same as between people who have adaptive and nonadaptive response to mental stress(i.e. acute vs. chronic PTSD), with the Gammas being the latter. Some of the key differences in these cases, from what she says, is the ability to find sense in the situation(mythology), believe you can do something and hold on to other people. I think the difference between Betas and Gammas is twofold:

1)conscious control of your power

2)holding onto people

If you don't have both you have a Gamma- either someone who is dangerous the same way a violent psychotic with a gun is dangerous(i.e. not necessarily meaning harm, but doing it) or someone who's essentially a psychopath with superpowers. This leads me to the belief Eddie(Dyson's brother) and Hafidha might be salvageable at some point.

I am confused by the parallel you are drawing, or that your friend is drawing.  Is the implication that people with acute PTSD are "holding onto people" and people with chronic PTSD are not "holding onto people"? ? If so, what does "holding onto people" mean?

Also, do you (or does your friend) draw any distinctions between people with managed chronic PTSD and unmanaged chronic PTSD?

[Elizabeth Bear]

I'm uncomfortable with the "blame the victim" model of mental illness.

And cancer, for that matter....

[jimsmyth]

I'm uncomfortable with the "blame the victim" model of mental illness.

And cancer, for that matter....

In one case, I'm quite willing to employ a "blame the victim's fiance" model for cancer, if that helps.

[tylik]

How does that work?

[Lioness]

I believe most if not all of the eggs are linked from the Reading Order page.

Gaah! I hadn't noticed that, nor that I'd missed the egg for the Living Word website. That rendition of the Ode to Joy is truly disturbing, crackworthy even.

Isn't it just? And once heard, it seems to inhabit the brain forever....

[jimsmyth]

How does that work?

Emotionally, quite well.

Scientifically, not so much.