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Carnadine
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« Reply #675 on: June 01, 2008, 07:05:24 am » |
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In some ways, we were completely unfair to Reyes in this ep. Because he has no POV. Which was intentional.
And he has his own tendencies to be smooth and hard as glass, and to give absolutely nothing away, even to himself if he can help it. As Emma said once, "That guy is totally up in his head." Even here I have a certain amount of sympathy for him - not that I condone what he did. I'm really curious to see how this secret will play out in the future. He's a complex character. I really enjoy reading his POV, when you do write it. |
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elyse
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« Reply #676 on: June 01, 2008, 07:14:25 am » |
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There's a line about Reyes walking up and down in the world early on (day 4 or early day 5?) that stopped me short when I first read it, days ago. The reference to Lucifer in the book of Job seemed a very much stronger indication of ambivalence or skepticism toward Reyes on the part of the viewpoint character than I felt we had been given support for up to that point. Or maybe distrust.
It works well in the context of the rest of the story: what with references to angels and testing a human being to destruction. But I still think in context it may be a bit of leakage of auctorial viewpoint.
I should probably look up which character had viewpoint for that line. But even after reading 30 pages of ICanHazCheeseburger between readings of Day 7, and the Introduction and first chapter of The Annotated Pride and Prejudice before bed, I don't think I'm ready for another full pass through the story yet.
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Elizabeth Bear
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« Reply #677 on: June 01, 2008, 07:24:04 am » |
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But I still think in context it may be a bit of leakage of auctorial viewpoint.
Point of order: Auctorial viewpoint on Reyes is probably a good deal more sympathetic than fan viewpoint, at this juncture. Actually, I take that back. There's no probably about it. |
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chaz: "As if puberty weren't stressful enough."
Todd: "See? That's why we're better than all those other law enforcement agencies. Correct use of the subjunctive."
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Carnadine
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« Reply #678 on: June 01, 2008, 07:30:14 am » |
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Found it.I confess that I didn't catch it myself on my first reading, as I've only ever read the Book of Job in Hebrew.
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chk
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« Reply #679 on: June 01, 2008, 07:43:01 am » |
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Your writers trust the fandom, BTW. Because you guys are made of smart. You're a joy to work for.
Maybe I'm projecting here, but it occurs to me that this web presentation is much more real for the authors than novels... with a novel, you spend a year writing (well, three months if you're kit murphy :-), and then wait a year or more for the book to be published, and then wait longer for a trickle of feedback to show up on your doorstep. Here, you're bathed in huge amounts of fan adoration (and hatred  for four months. Immediate feedback is wonderful! |
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elyse
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« Reply #680 on: June 01, 2008, 07:46:43 am » |
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But I still think in context it may be a bit of leakage of auctorial viewpoint.
Point of order: Auctorial viewpoint on Reyes is probably a good deal more sympathetic than fan viewpoint, at this juncture. Actually, I take that back. There's no probably about it. I suspect I'm not the only one with Daddy issues whose buttons got pushed by Reyes leaving young-Chaz twisting in the wind. But what I meant about the leakage was that the line seems to reflect knowledge the authors had at that point, rather than the knowledge and attitudes of the character. Especially since the line is in, or is a lead-in to Falkner's viewpoint. (Thanks, Carnadine. That's probably the most referenced line in Job, and its use ties the character to the Devil by way of Lucifer-in-Job. Characters who use the line about themselves can be very interesting...) |
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Carnadine
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« Reply #681 on: June 01, 2008, 07:57:28 am » |
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(Thanks, Carnadine. That's probably the most referenced line in Job, and its use ties the character to the Devil by way of Lucifer-in-Job. Characters who use the line about themselves can be very interesting...) Just looked the original phrase up. Instead of "from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it," it's "from wandering in the land, and from walking in it." Artistic embellishment, I guess.  |
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Elizabeth Bear
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« Reply #682 on: June 01, 2008, 08:01:35 am » |
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But I still think in context it may be a bit of leakage of auctorial viewpoint.
Point of order: Auctorial viewpoint on Reyes is probably a good deal more sympathetic than fan viewpoint, at this juncture. Actually, I take that back. There's no probably about it. I suspect I'm not the only one with Daddy issues whose buttons got pushed by Reyes leaving young-Chaz twisting in the wind. But what I meant about the leakage was that the line seems to reflect knowledge the authors had at that point, rather than the knowledge and attitudes of the character. Especially since the line is in, or is a lead-in to Falkner's viewpoint. (Thanks, Carnadine. That's probably the most referenced line in Job, and its use ties the character to the Devil by way of Lucifer-in-Job. Characters who use the line about themselves can be very interesting...) Or, you know. Falkner is being wryly funny. *g* |
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chaz: "As if puberty weren't stressful enough."
Todd: "See? That's why we're better than all those other law enforcement agencies. Correct use of the subjunctive."
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Carnadine
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« Reply #683 on: June 01, 2008, 08:04:58 am » |
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Or, you know. Falkner is being wryly funny. *g*
That's how I read it. |
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txanne
Laser Snark
Hero Member
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« Reply #684 on: June 01, 2008, 08:05:23 am » |
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magdalen
Newbie
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« Reply #685 on: June 01, 2008, 08:05:48 am » |
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I got the impression -- just an impression, mind you -- that his manifestation wasn't so much invisibility as mirroring. Gammas see themselves and find their own powers used against them. Chaz isn't using the powers, he's just...reflecting them.
With the added benefit that, because of this, they don't affect him.
And it comes off as invisibility because, after all, you can't see through a mirror. And because William's power is projection, so he's seeing the projection of himself everywhere.
That's not entirely coherent, but my grasp of Chaz's manifestation isn't entire or coherent, so it's what I've got.
You mean if he were fighting a different gamma his powers might look very different? |
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Carnadine
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« Reply #686 on: June 01, 2008, 08:08:23 am » |
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I hope she posts soon, I've been reloading her blog every 10 mins or so all morning. |
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winterwind
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« Reply #687 on: June 01, 2008, 08:10:30 am » |
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Oh, those authors. They *do* love us. They really do. (I need an icon that says "My fandom is way overinvested" or something to that effect. 'Cause just catching up on the thread's got me in tears again. -__- ) |
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iblori58
Full Member
Posts: 130
Excellence is in the details.
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« Reply #688 on: June 01, 2008, 08:13:15 am » |
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I'm so NOT good at biblical references, but from what I'm reading in the comments, I'm getting the impression that just as Job was tested by God, Chaz was tested by Reyes? Reyes had a line about the trial that would be held in his head and that Chaz was no longer on trial?? That would indicate that the authors were not presenting Reyes as a monster?
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txanne
Laser Snark
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« Reply #689 on: June 01, 2008, 08:20:37 am » |
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Bible quotes depend on which translation of the Bible you are using. King James tends to be the one most quoted in English
For Refining Fire I was using the KJV, that being the most likely candidate for the Relative's favorite. |
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