1x08, "Refining Fire"

[VCorvidae]

This episode just isn't working for me.

In some ways, it's the third volume of a trilogy: things have been set up and characters introduced.

Anyway, the first bit, Chaz in Texas, was good. But it was straight into Chas-as-victim, and no apparent relief. And, bad luck maybe, when I tried other sections there seemed to be nothing else.

I gave up.

You guys are better writers than I'll ever be, but I've had the same reaction to other things. I've seen amateur writers turn out hundreds of pages of OK stuff, and then suddenly lurch off the trail. I've done it myself, but that fanfic zine had an editor willing to edit, and three pages shrank to a couple of lines.

So I think you needed an editor.

As an editor, I disagree. 

There was  LOT going on here, but there was none of it superfluous. And there was a lot of high-energy, tug-at-your-gut action going on here, which would lead very easily to overload. I think I remember several people saying that they couldn't read an entire day's section in one sitting.

Speaking as an editor, there's not a durn thing I would have cut. And beleive me, I can be brutal when I edit. (Oh, and as to what I've worked on, I was Lead Editor for a gaming company for a number of years. And if you want to talk about writing that needs serious HELP, let's talk gaming supplements...)

[Oshimoi]

I disagree, honestly, but I admit that the Chaz hostage scenes were incredibly hard for me to read; so much so that I went into "cheat mode" - I skipped to the sections dealing with the SU team and read them first. Having seen the story from the outside, I was able to go back and re-read the story as a whole.

Yeah, I know, bad reader, no bookmark, but without the Dutch courage of that first read, I'm not sure I would have made it through; and really, however triggery Chaz's story might be I believe Refining Fire stands as one of the strongest stories of the season.

So, you know, what doesn't work, doesn't work, but I think the story is worth another look. Give it a month or so and try again maybe.

[AntoniaTiger]

Well, I guess I'm just going to have to disagree   The first few days' worth was pretty much Chaz In Peril, but there was a lot going on back at base (and later, in the field), too.  And it all worked very well, for me.  I certainly never felt at any point like it was all going on too long, and please could you cut this bit...

To each their own, I guess

Yeah.

And just cutting wouldn't have worked either. My experience was not the best example. But I was too close to my own story: I needed that more detached opinion.

[jimsmyth]

Well, I guess I'm just going to have to disagree   The first few days' worth was pretty much Chaz In Peril, but there was a lot going on back at base (and later, in the field), too.  And it all worked very well, for me.  I certainly never felt at any point like it was all going on too long, and please could you cut this bit...

To each their own, I guess

Yeah.

And just cutting wouldn't have worked either. My experience was not the best example. But I was too close to my own story: I needed that more detached opinion.

All the bits I wanted left out, I wanted left out for Chaz, too.  If he had to live through them, I wanted to be there for him.

And while I would have been happy for him had the team showed up in a black helicopter on Monday morning and exploded the Relative, sometimes life doesn't work that way, and bad things happen to good people who are worried about being bad people.

[jimsmyth]

Salty lamps! Somebody else noted that further up, and I have no excuse for it--other than wailing "Periodic Table TOO BIG!"--because I remember when they put in the sodium vapor lamps on State Street in Rockford, Illinois. After dark, it looked like downtown Armaggedon. With zombies.

Ah, the good ol' days. Thank you for the copyediting, and the time-travel moment. 

If you wanna fix it in the text, I promise I won't tell.

Otherwise, I'm left imagining Sol as someone who confuses mercury with sodium.  Which is possible, mind you, as I'd expect the chemicals he is familiar with are more... organic in nature, but I expect better of him.

Alternatively, it's a blooper not caught by the script team before shooting, and they were unable to retake that scene because of time/budget/weather constraints.  I mean, we do have another whole layer of conceit to play with.

[nebula]

I am really, really late to the RF discussion party and I hope I haven't ruined the flow of this thread but I've finally had a chance to re-read the whole episode and this time, make notes and do some pondering. And this is what interested me about it.

1. At the beginning, Chaz's concern about breaking a leg, his almost hypervigilance about his physical safety is noticeable. He does have an acute awareness of his own body, most of the time, and we see this as the episode progresses - but it is neatly introduced here.

2. I liked the way Chaz named William The Relative, and maintained that all the way through. Naming is an act of control and also of distancing. While he was The Relative, he was Other and he was an entity Chaz could profile. Any notion of a relationship was removed. However, as we see later on, Chaz's thoughts and his behaviour don't always mesh. He is only The Relative when Chaz thinks about him.

3. I twigged William's relationship to Chaz as soon as he referred to himself as his father. But Chaz doesn't - he sees him as "casting Chaz as his child" and I wondered if he was in complete denial about who William might be at this point. I wonder if he suspected but couldn't bring himself to even acknowledge it.

4. Interesting that Brady refers to Chaz's disappearance and possible behaviour as him "going off script". It seems the kind of thing they would refer to an Unsub doing, not a victim. Is he trying to maintain a certain distance from Chaz in order not to allow himself to either be hurt or to give in to his fears about what has happened?

5. I did really like Todd and Worth's discussion about victimology and Chaz's background, their discomfort at delving into a co-worker's life and then the realisation that it was completely possible that they might never work with him again. The line about "working with profilers" was great.

6. Reyes - his focus is on William and not Chaz. Reyes has one goal and that is hunt the Anomaly - even when the victim is Chaz. Reyes' single-mindedness is telling - what happened to make him that dedicated? Because he is not unfeeling or unemotional - however, he shuts all of that down in order to do his job.

7. I had a bit of a geek moment about Addy's pregnancy. If the rape and conception occurred on January 31st, that puts the first date of her last period (LMP) at around 17th January (14 days before). Pregnancy is always dated from this date and not the conception date. Normal pregnancy is 37 - 42 weeks but the due date is always 40 weeks from the LMP. Which puts Chaz's due date at 23rd October. He was about a week overdue. So not exactly on time. However, the next line still works - he could have been on time ever since . . . 

8. Chaz's lists are heartbreaking and horrible. But a good example of his determination to keep going. And even his decision to die can be seen as a positive one. He is making a choice and taking some control back and choosing the best option for him in an impossible situation. And even then, he is still analysing and calculating - he never stops thinking.

9. Falkner takes care of everyone - she can't turn that off and I love her for it. I thought the discussion with Reyes was interesting and the assertion that there is no fate worse than death. Really? I'm not so sure, but maybe that's a personal thing. I can see it in the context that while there is life there is hope, but there are some fates I would rather not live through.

10. I was surprised that Falkner didn't see the Beta phase as incubation - I think I always have, or at least there has always been an awareness of the potential "hatching" of the gamma. Hmmm.

11. I didn't twig until a second read that Falkner is the angel that greets him, something that ties in nicely with her "mom" role. I loved her pushing Reyes aside to do what is needed and even while she is in mother-mode, she is still thinking and still extremely aware of Chaz and his needs.  I like the Todd-as-angel image as well.

12. Chaz breaking and calling William "Daddy" was awful.

Sorry for the length of this and I don't know if any/some/all of it should really be in a different thread. But I did think the episode was great - and far better being read over a longer period of time. There was so much to take in when I first read it, it wasn't until I re-read it that I was properly able to think about what I was reading.

[Oshimoi]

Excellent analysis,nebula. Thanks!

[Elizabeth Bear]

Well, I certainly don't mind long discussions. *g* They give me more to read and think about. And thank you!

[BeatriceEagle]

9. Falkner takes care of everyone - she can't turn that off and I love her for it. I thought the discussion with Reyes was interesting and the assertion that there is no fate worse than death. Really? I'm not so sure, but maybe that's a personal thing. I can see it in the context that while there is life there is hope, but there are some fates I would rather not live through.

My take was that Falkner may be the only person who really believes that.  We know Brady doesn't.  Chaz certainly doesn't.  It's pretty clear from the last scene of KoC that Hafidha doesn't.  And if pushed, I'd say that Reyes doesn't.  Or maybe Reyes does.  I can't get very far into Reyes's head.  But I don't think that most of the team actually believes it when they say that there is no fate worse than death.  They're words of comfort.

[MadGastronomer]

4. Interesting that Brady refers to Chaz's disappearance and possible behaviour as him "going off script". It seems the kind of thing they would refer to an Unsub doing, not a victim. Is he trying to maintain a certain distance from Chaz in order not to allow himself to either be hurt or to give in to his fears about what has happened?

I think it's at least partially a holdover from his theater days.  "Off script" was theater lingo before it was profiler lingo.  And in the theater, anyone who doesn't do what you expect them to do might be said to be going off script.

10. I was surprised that Falkner didn't see the Beta phase as incubation - I think I always have, or at least there has always been an awareness of the potential "hatching" of the gamma. Hmmm.

Really?  We've never, ever seen any beta convert into a gamma.  Granted, our sample is miniscule, but we've also never seen any evidence of a gamma being a beta before becoming a gamma.  To me, that sure doesn't look like betas are the larval stage of gammas, it looks like they're a separate critter entirely.

[nebula]

9. Falkner takes care of everyone - she can't turn that off and I love her for it. I thought the discussion with Reyes was interesting and the assertion that there is no fate worse than death. Really? I'm not so sure, but maybe that's a personal thing. I can see it in the context that while there is life there is hope, but there are some fates I would rather not live through.

My take was that Falkner may be the only person who really believes that.  We know Brady doesn't.  Chaz certainly doesn't.  It's pretty clear from the last scene of KoC that Hafidha doesn't.  And if pushed, I'd say that Reyes doesn't.  Or maybe Reyes does.  I can't get very far into Reyes's head.  But I don't think that most of the team actually believes it when they say that there is no fate worse than death.  They're words of comfort.

Ahh, I was reading it as Falkner saying it to back up Reyes. As though it was what was expected. I was seeing it as something for them to hold onto - not exactly as comfort, but more as a refusal to give up until death was a certainty as until that point, they still had a chance.

[nebula]

4. Interesting that Brady refers to Chaz's disappearance and possible behaviour as him "going off script". It seems the kind of thing they would refer to an Unsub doing, not a victim. Is he trying to maintain a certain distance from Chaz in order not to allow himself to either be hurt or to give in to his fears about what has happened?

I think it's at least partially a holdover from his theater days.  "Off script" was theater lingo before it was profiler lingo.  And in the theater, anyone who doesn't do what you expect them to do might be said to be going off script.

Maybe, although Brady doesn't strike me as somebody who uses particularly theatrical language. I could be wrong, but I thought he tends to talk like a cop.

10. I was surprised that Falkner didn't see the Beta phase as incubation - I think I always have, or at least there has always been an awareness of the potential "hatching" of the gamma. Hmmm.

Really?  We've never, ever seen any beta convert into a gamma.  Granted, our sample is miniscule, but we've also never seen any evidence of a gamma being a beta before becoming a gamma.  To me, that sure doesn't look like betas are the larval stage of gammas, it looks like they're a separate critter entirely.

I agree that the sample size is way too small to make any kind of assertion about what a beta is and might do, but I've always thought of them as having the potential to develop one stage further. I'm not sure what my evidence is for that, other than there being a progression in the alphabet - Alpha, Beta, Gamma - but I've assumed that the potential is there. Plus, are we sure that no gammas have had a beta stage?

[txanne]

Brady's bio says he's involved in community theater.

[jimsmyth]

I agree that the sample size is way too small to make any kind of assertion about what a beta is and might do, but I've always thought of them as having the potential to develop one stage further. I'm not sure what my evidence is for that, other than there being a progression in the alphabet - Alpha, Beta, Gamma - but I've assumed that the potential is there. Plus, are we sure that no gammas have had a beta stage?

Actually, Gammas were named first and the Beta nomenclature is a backfill.  I currently suspect that "Gamma" was a backhanded "Incredible Hulk" reference by Reyes.  (Implying, for one thing, more of a sense of humor than I otherwise credit him with.)

As far as I can tell, Reyes' Gamma-theory has Betas provisionally pegged as either "incipient Gammas" or "partial Gammas".  I'm also sure that Reyes' Gamma-theory fit the observed data at the time, even though I've seen little evidence to support it in the text.  (Reyes is many things.  'Stupid' is not one of them.)  I suspect much would become obvious were we to see the "Reyes: The Early Years" miniseries.  He is the mystery about which other myteries revolve.

[Cal]

I currently suspect that "Gamma" was a backhanded "Incredible Hulk" reference by Reyes.  (Implying, for one thing, more of a sense of humor than I otherwise credit him with.)

That works.  He gave us a direct 'Spiderman' reference when discussing mythologies in 'Breathe', after all!