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Elizabeth Bear
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2009, 10:24:58 pm » |
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I don't know if we have any PTB originally from The South...
Sarah is a Tenneseean. I'm a Yankee, but my grandmother was an Alabaman, and my dad lives in North Carolina. (By my lexicon, Yankees are properly *only* New Englanders.) |
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Chaz: "As if puberty weren't stressful enough."
Todd: "See? That's why we're better than all those other law enforcement agencies. Correct use of the subjunctive."
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MadGastronomer
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« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2009, 10:26:45 pm » |
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(By my lexicon, Yankees are properly *only* New Englanders.)
I don't know that I can swing that as my main definition, although it has been entered as a secondary one. Right now I'm just working on not saying it as if it always has "damn" in front of it. |
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Elizabeth Bear
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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2009, 10:28:25 pm » |
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(By my lexicon, Yankees are properly *only* New Englanders.)
I don't know that I can swing that as my main definition, although it has been entered as a secondary one. Right now I'm just working on not saying it as if it always has "damn" in front of it. Well, okay. You're a bigot, but I can overlook that as long as you're working on it. |
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chaz: "As if puberty weren't stressful enough."
Todd: "See? That's why we're better than all those other law enforcement agencies. Correct use of the subjunctive."
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MadGastronomer
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« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2009, 10:43:26 pm » |
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I am a bigot. I am working on it. It's true about a number of things in my life. All I can do is try to fail better next time.
Also, just at the moment, a rude New Yorker (I think I'll start calling her a New Yorker instead of a Yankee; then I'll just have to work on saying "New Yorker" as if it didn't have "damn" in front) is behaving in exactly the way I was taught that "Yankees" act. Makes it more difficult today. I'm working on it anyway.
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stardreamer
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« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2009, 10:49:40 pm » |
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For the record, because some of the people here know me better than others: I lived in Detroit until I was 16, when my family moved to Nashville; I stayed there for another 26 years, and moved to Houston 10-nearly-11 years ago. So I have spent the majority of my life in (for lack of a better term) red states, but didn't get the same early-years conditioning as people who grow up here.
IME, the similarities between Texas and the Southeast are much more noticeable than their differences, and in particular, the use of "Yankee" as a pejorative is exactly the same in both places, and anyone born outside the boundaries of the Old Confederacy is a Yankee.
I am willing to accept txanne's take on this particular scene, but I still think that my reaction to having a guy I was dating say that to me would be very negative indeed.
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Elizabeth Bear
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« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2009, 10:50:05 pm » |
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Well, and sure. It's a cultural thing. New Yorkers are brusque and forthright and overbearing, and there are pretty good cultural reasons why they are so. (One of the true rudenesses in New York is impeding traffic, for example.)
You can bet anything you like that there's stuff you do which seems polite and even considerate to you--or at least unobjectionable--that probably makes her nuts, too.
I have serious cultural issues with many Californians, who I often find incredibly nosy and invasive. In turn, they tend to find me cold and aloof at best, rude and condescending at best. We're all going to have to get better at negotiating these differences, being aware of our own cultural relativism, and adapting around each other's cultural programs as the world shrinks.
In my head, at least, that's al ot of what Brady and Gray are doing in that scene, and acknowledging that they are doing it through the teasing is part of the process.
(I am also a bigot, and I am also working on it. But we're all works in progress, thank dog.)
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chaz: "As if puberty weren't stressful enough."
Todd: "See? That's why we're better than all those other law enforcement agencies. Correct use of the subjunctive."
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Elizabeth Bear
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« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2009, 10:51:14 pm » |
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I am willing to accept txanne's take on this particular scene, but I still think that my reaction to having a guy I was dating say that to me would be very negative indeed.
Do you think it would depend on tone of voice and context at all? |
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chaz: "As if puberty weren't stressful enough."
Todd: "See? That's why we're better than all those other law enforcement agencies. Correct use of the subjunctive."
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miminnehaha
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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2009, 10:52:32 pm » |
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behaving in exactly the way I was taught that "Yankees" act. ~more proof that prejudice is a learned behavior. I am playing "free to be you and me" for the kids at least 10 times Saturday- *a person's a person that way. *thankful sigh* what would we do without txanne?! |
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« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 11:59:11 pm by miminnehaha »
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"I was waiting for the dotted yellow. I'm not Chaz." It was a rich, hallucinatory web of geometry...
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Edmund Schweppe
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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2009, 11:01:55 pm » |
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He's using it in the sense of cognitive dissonance, because by his upbringing, the connotations of "Yankee" are much like what MG describes. With a side note of carpetbaggers.
Yes, that. Actually, my first response to such a comment would probably have been, "Is that really an issue?" in a very neutral tone of voice, and further action would have depended on how the guy handled it. Now I understand why I read the exact same words you did and had a radically different reaction. I, too, am a New Englander - a swamp Yankee, as Bear notes 1. I even grew up with a swamp in my backyard 2. While I know, intellectually, that "Yankee" is a serious insult in some places (both in and out of the USA), it doesn't feel like an insult to me. And I suspect it didn't feel like one to Gray. 1 Although Bear eats pie for breakfast rather more frequently than I do. 2 We had so many swamps in town that we named the local newspaper the Mosquito. |
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"Suddenly one of my great satisfactions in life is knowing I'm not a character in an Anne Rice novel." - Hafidha |
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jimsmyth
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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2009, 11:19:46 pm » |
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As a Mainer, "Yankee" is a proud statement of fact, and it is incomprehensible that one could be anything other than honored by being called one.
And pie is quite tasty for breakfast, but rare, due to it's (theoretically) unfortunate tendency to vanish in the middle of the night.
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"I wanted to tell you both. I've met someone."
"Danny, that's good," his mother said, sounding strange and strained and cautious. "What's--"
"His name's Grayson. He works for the State Department."
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Elizabeth Bear
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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2009, 11:26:30 pm » |
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As a Mainer, "Yankee" is a proud statement of fact, and it is incomprehensible that one could be anything other than honored by being called one.
Word. Which is no doubt how Gray, who appears to be a Rhode Islander or perhaps a Baystater, would feel about it. It's a term of pride. ...Although SOME Maineacs have an unfortunate tendency to maintain that swamp yankees are not "real" New Englanders. (Apparently conveniently forgetting that when it became New England, their state was part of the swamp yankee colony of Massachusetts, and it was not admitted to the Union until 1820. A classic case of projection, if you ask me.... |
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chaz: "As if puberty weren't stressful enough."
Todd: "See? That's why we're better than all those other law enforcement agencies. Correct use of the subjunctive."
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Edmund Schweppe
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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2009, 11:42:15 pm » |
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...Although SOME Maineacs have an unfortunate tendency to maintain that swamp yankees are not "real" New Englanders.
Anti-flatlander prejudice, no doubt. |
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"Suddenly one of my great satisfactions in life is knowing I'm not a character in an Anne Rice novel." - Hafidha |
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miminnehaha
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« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2009, 11:49:53 pm » |
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My fandom wrestles with the big issues!
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"I was waiting for the dotted yellow. I'm not Chaz." It was a rich, hallucinatory web of geometry...
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miminnehaha
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« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2009, 11:52:40 pm » |
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Oh, that is so weird-- when I'm on the web-by-phone, my replies appear all out of order... huh.
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"I was waiting for the dotted yellow. I'm not Chaz." It was a rich, hallucinatory web of geometry...
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miminnehaha
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« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2009, 11:58:05 pm » |
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While I know, intellectually, that "Yankee" is a serious insult in some places (both in and out of the USA), it doesn't feel like an insult to me. And I suspect it didn't feel like one to Gray.
~that, exactly. 50 "replies" = 1 edmund!edited to add: why is it all a "quote"? How can I... oh, good grief, I'm going to bed! |
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« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 12:02:38 am by miminnehaha »
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"I was waiting for the dotted yellow. I'm not Chaz." It was a rich, hallucinatory web of geometry...
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