Two Crazy Women Start a Restaurant

[tylik]

Well, for a sausage, haggis involves a lot of grain -- oats, specifically. But it's less than a quarter of the total mass, uncooked, and the flavor comes mostly from the meat. Even if you put in something else to provide flavor, you'd still need something -- a protein -- to bind it, and something to take the place of the stomach. Larb has other strong flavors, and doesn't need a binding agent. The two are not really analogous.

If I was, for some reason, actually producing a flaming haggis, and had to produce something similarly shaped for the vegetarians, I'd probably mix oats into a seitan loaf, but if I recall correctly, you can have gluten, either, so it wouldn't help for you. And it really would not qualify as vegetarian haggis. I'm afraid haggis, like boudin rouge, is just one of those things that you can't make vegetarian.

Actually, I'm fine with gluten (my real breads and generally made with a fair bit of wheat) I just cook for a number of people who aren't.

And haggis is more something I'm curious about than anything else - it so often has gotten a bum rap, and it doesn't sound like it should be a problem. And I'd *like* to try some... but I'm not sure if I'd like to try some enough to eat meat. (Which, clearly, I will do under some circumstances. But it certain doesn't meet the elderly Chinese neighbor who doesn't speak English making me rice dumplings with roasted pork standard. I'm not sure how strict I am about these things, though.)

(I do, apparently, still eat fish, which I was starting to wonder about. Sometimes. Maybe it's just a not in Ohio thing. Of course, "Would you like some salmon that my uncle caught and smoke himself?" is a good way to help me work these things out...)

[Elizabeth Bear]

Even when I was keeping vegetarian, I made exceptions for things like "Would you like some of my venison." Because that's an honor.

Vegetarian diet makes me feel oogie, though--apparently I need regular infusions of animal protein (and specifically fish and red meat) to not feel like death warmed over a lot of the time. I still make a lot of vegetarian recipes as a matter of course, however.

[tylik]

I would almost certainly taste the venison. But land meat and I have issues, at least in any quantity. (Back during the years when I had somewhat returned to eating meat, I was horrified when a friend made me an absolutely wonderful prime rib, and... while I enjoyed it with my mouth I am fairy certain it did not stay with me long enough to absorb much nutrients from it. What a dreadful waste.)

Bodies are so odd. Mine is currently fussing at me because it hasn't gotten it's normal daily dose of fiber. (It has really high expectations in that department.)

[MadGastronomer]

MG, we really are in agreement then.

I thought we might be. Clearly, I just needed to explain a little better.

(Then I tried a Morningstar Farms hot dog and realized you can do a perfectly fine veggie hot dog. But the best grilled pseudo-sausage is Boca's Italian sausage. Fry one up, put it on a roll... Hmm. Must go have breakfast now.)

I've tried several variations on veggie sausages, and found them all completely unpalatable. Texture, mostly.

And haggis is more something I'm curious about than anything else - it so often has gotten a bum rap, and it doesn't sound like it should be a problem. And I'd *like* to try some... but I'm not sure if I'd like to try some enough to eat meat. (Which, clearly, I will do under some circumstances. But it certain doesn't meet the elderly Chinese neighbor who doesn't speak English making me rice dumplings with roasted pork standard. I'm not sure how strict I am about these things, though.)

Haggis does get a bum rap, which started basically because it was a specifically Scottish thing, and the English thought the Scots were barbarians. Then it continued to get a bum rap because of things like Highlander, where it's specifically described in a way that's disgusting to our society. On the other hand, it isn't actually anything special, just a mutton sausage with organ meat and oats in. Carefully prepared by a skilled cook, it can be very tasty, but it's still just mutton sausage.

(I do, apparently, still eat fish, which I was starting to wonder about. Sometimes. Maybe it's just a not in Ohio thing. Of course, "Would you like some salmon that my uncle caught and smoke himself?" is a good way to help me work these things out...)

I wouldn't eat fish in Ohio, either, and I love seafood. Having grown up in Florida, I have a strict policy of not eating seafood anywhere that doesn't have a waterfront. (It used to be not eating seafood anywhere you couldn't see the ocean from, but then I moved to Seattle, and while you can't see the ocean, the boats can still get there.)

[nebula]

Haggis does get a bum rap, which started basically because it was a specifically Scottish thing, and the English thought the Scots were barbarians. Then it continued to get a bum rap because of things like Highlander, where it's specifically described in a way that's disgusting to our society. On the other hand, it isn't actually anything special, just a mutton sausage with organ meat and oats in. Carefully prepared by a skilled cook, it can be very tasty, but it's still just mutton sausage.

I'm not sure that distaste about haggis is necessarily down to anti-Scottish feeling. The English eat offal too. Haggis is not that easy to get hold of in England, and unless you celebrate Burns Night, a lot of English people don't actually come across it.

I think the squeamishness comes from a perception that haggis contains "unmentionables", whereas sausages are likely to be very similar.

(we amused ourselves on our last holiday to Scotland by telling the children that wild hairy haggises roam the highlands, sniffing out tablet to eat)

I do like haggis - but it is very rich and I can't eat a lot of it. My husband bemoans the fact that you can't get deep-fried haggis and chips south of the border, but I suspect it wouldn't taste as good.

[MadGastronomer]

I'm not sure that distaste about haggis is necessarily down to anti-Scottish feeling. The English eat offal too. Haggis is not that easy to get hold of in England, and unless you celebrate Burns Night, a lot of English people don't actually come across it.

I'm pretty sure I've come across references in Victorian-era stories (as in written in, not about) where haggis is mentioned as one more thing those weirdos up north do, along with wearing "those queer hats called bonnets by the Scots".

I think the squeamishness comes from a perception that haggis contains "unmentionables", whereas sausages are likely to be very similar.

Which, again, sounds like a conclusion Good Englishmen would draw about Those Fiery Scots in times gone by. I'm not saying that the English still have such strong prejudice against the Scots -- I really don't know -- but the notion of haggis as gross does seem to go back quite a way, to a time in which there certainly was such a prejudice.

I do like haggis - but it is very rich and I can't eat a lot of it. My husband bemoans the fact that you can't get deep-fried haggis and chips south of the border, but I suspect it wouldn't taste as good.

Well, no, probably not.
I've had deep fried haggis and chips, in Edinburgh, and it was very nice.

[will shetterly]

I've tried several variations on veggie sausages, and found them all completely unpalatable. Texture, mostly.

In the realm of faux meat, the range is astonishing, even within brands. I think everything I've tried by Yves fit your description perfectly. Tofurkey products generally bore me, but their Italian sausage is surprisingly good. Boca and Morningstar Farms are usually dependable. Unlike a lot of old school veggie producers, they're not afraid of spices.

[Elizabeth Bear]

I found haggis incredibly bland. I fail Scot.

[MadGastronomer]

In the realm of faux meat, the range is astonishing, even within brands. I think everything I've tried by Yves fit your description perfectly. Tofurkey products generally bore me, but their Italian sausage is surprisingly good. Boca and Morningstar Farms are usually dependable. Unlike a lot of old school veggie producers, they're not afraid of spices.

Boca and Morningstar are actually the brands that I specifically hated the texture of so much. I actually spit out my first bite of the Morningstar breakfast sausage. The flavor was ok, but the texture made my skin crawl.

I've got a lot of veggie friends, and I've tried their favorites, and so far, nothing has worked for me.

I found haggis incredibly bland. I fail Scot.

Mutton is not an especially flavorful meat, and the Scots don't use the widest range of spices known to man. Yeah, it can get pretty bland. Which is why you deep fry it!

[Elizabeth Bear]

Then it was bland and deep fried. *g* I think it's just not for me.

[MadGastronomer]

I promise I don't think any less of you for it.

[ArtemisHi]

I would almost certainly taste the venison. But land meat and I have issues, at least in any quantity. (Back during the years when I had somewhat returned to eating meat, I was horrified when a friend made me an absolutely wonderful prime rib, and... while I enjoyed it with my mouth I am fairy certain it did not stay with me long enough to absorb much nutrients from it. What a dreadful waste.)

Bodies are so odd. Mine is currently fussing at me because it hasn't gotten it's normal daily dose of fiber. (It has really high expectations in that department.)

One aunt and one uncle of mine (siblings) have that issue with land-roaming meat as well. I wonder if it's the absence of some digestive enzyme, or an outright allergy to something in the meat?

[eschatonic]

I would almost certainly taste the venison. But land meat and I have issues, at least in any quantity. (Back during the years when I had somewhat returned to eating meat, I was horrified when a friend made me an absolutely wonderful prime rib, and... while I enjoyed it with my mouth I am fairy certain it did not stay with me long enough to absorb much nutrients from it. What a dreadful waste.)

Bodies are so odd. Mine is currently fussing at me because it hasn't gotten it's normal daily dose of fiber. (It has really high expectations in that department.)

One aunt and one uncle of mine (siblings) have that issue with land-roaming meat as well. I wonder if it's the absence of some digestive enzyme, or an outright allergy to something in the meat?

based on my friends' experiences* I think it is a digestive enzyme issue.  If you do not eat land animal-based products for long enough, your body stops producing the enzyme(s) necessary to digest it properly, so your body then treats it as inedible.  like lactose intolerance.

I don't think it's an allergy, mainly because food allergies, for example to milk or peanuts, tend to produce anaphylactic reactions rather than, ah, gastric distress.

*yeah, yeah, the plural of anecdote is not data.  I have done no research to support this point of view.

[MadGastronomer]

I don't think it's an allergy, mainly because food allergies, for example to milk or peanuts, tend to produce anaphylactic reactions rather than, ah, gastric distress.

That turns out not to be so. In addition to anaphylactic allergic reactions, there are systemic allergic reaction, which cause vomiting. I know, I have a systemic reaction to avocados. It is also perfectly possible to be allergic to red meat. A systemic-reaction allergy and a simply intolerance (lack of enzymes for digestion) may present similarly.

[eschatonic]

That turns out not to be so. In addition to anaphylactic allergic reactions, there are systemic allergic reaction, which cause vomiting. I know, I have a systemic reaction to avocados. It is also perfectly possible to be allergic to red meat. A systemic-reaction allergy and a simply intolerance (lack of enzymes for digestion) may present similarly.

well, shows what I know.