Conversion and Reyes

[Felicia1066]

I suppose this could as easily have gone in the Reyes section, but it's been so long since there were any new posts in here!

We've had several mentions of how, when Hafidha converted to beta, Reyes stood by her, helped her, understood and explained just what was happening to her. In Wind-Up Boogeyman, she says Reyes saved her life.

But Chaz and Hafidha are the world's only known betas. (Or at least that's what Brady says in Breathe.) So just how could Reyes know what was going on? Wouldn't he have thought she was turning into a gamma? In which case, just how genuine was his help, and how much was he just looking at Hafs as a specimen to be studied? Or had he already deducted at that point that watched-from-a-distance Chaz was something in-between, and that there was a chance Hafidha could become one, too? (I don't think we've ever been given an exact timeline for Hafidha's illness and conversion, but we know she joined the WTF before Chaz did.)

Hafs is no fool. She's probably considered all these things herself, and is apparently still grateful to Reyes for saving her life. There was also an lj entry where she pondered how a serious illness will show you who stands by you and who doesn't, citing her fiancé as one who didn't, and Reyes as one who did. Doesn't sound to me like she thinks he was just being the scientist studying a case, waiting for her to turn into a monster.

And then there's the car scene in Knock on Coffins, with her second breakthrough.

Reyes' eyes were still seeking hers in the mirror, and how the hell was he driving the car? But he didn't pull over, and he didn't turn around.

It was, on one level, a tremendous display of trust. His back was to her. She was sitting immediately behind him, and even though Lau and Todd had turned to stare, neither one had a weapon in hand.

It doesn't seem to match up with what we've seen of Reyes in other situations, this apparent trust in Hafs. He's treating her like a person, even a friend, rather than a case or a potential monster. Why is that? Does Hafs know why? Is it something about the relationship between them which we haven't been told about yet that causes this? It's such a strong contrast to the Reyes/Chaz relationship.... And we've been given no reason why there should be such a difference.

[Edmund Schweppe]

I suppose this could as easily have gone in the Reyes section, but it's been so long since there were any new posts in here!

We've had several mentions of how, when Hafidha converted to beta, Reyes stood by her, helped her, understood and explained just what was happening to her. In Wind-Up Boogeyman, she says Reyes saved her life.

But Chaz and Hafidha are the world's only known betas. (Or at least that's what Brady says in Breathe.) So just how could Reyes know what was going on? Wouldn't he have thought she was turning into a gamma?

If I recall correctly, Hafidha was in the Secret Service when she converted, and had been doing protective details, so it'd make sense that she was in the DC area when it happened. For a long while none of her physicians could figure out what was going on. I speculate that Dr. Amrita Srinivasan was called in to consult on Hafidha's case, spotted the signs of the Anomaly and the lack of harmful manifestations, and clued Reyes in. Reyes acts convinced that some anomalous individuals can be helped, and he had been keeping tabs on Chaz for years before Hafidha's conversion.

In which case, just how genuine was his help, and how much was he just looking at Hafs as a specimen to be studied? Or had he already deducted at that point that watched-from-a-distance Chaz was something in-between, and that there was a chance Hafidha could become one, too? (I don't think we've ever been given an exact timeline for Hafidha's illness and conversion, but we know she joined the WTF before Chaz did.)

Hafs is no fool. She's probably considered all these things herself, and is apparently still grateful to Reyes for saving her life. There was also an lj entry where she pondered how a serious illness will show you who stands by you and who doesn't, citing her fiancé as one who didn't, and Reyes as one who did. Doesn't sound to me like she thinks he was just being the scientist studying a case, waiting for her to turn into a monster.

And then there's the car scene in Knock on Coffins, with her second breakthrough.

Reyes' eyes were still seeking hers in the mirror, and how the hell was he driving the car? But he didn't pull over, and he didn't turn around.

It was, on one level, a tremendous display of trust. His back was to her. She was sitting immediately behind him, and even though Lau and Todd had turned to stare, neither one had a weapon in hand.

It doesn't seem to match up with what we've seen of Reyes in other situations, this apparent trust in Hafs. He's treating her like a person, even a friend, rather than a case or a potential monster. Why is that? Does Hafs know why? Is it something about the relationship between them which we haven't been told about yet that causes this? It's such a strong contrast to the Reyes/Chaz relationship.... And we've been given no reason why there should be such a difference.

I, for one, am eagerly awaiting enough textual evidence to figure out what's going on.

Well, besides the fact that I'm eagerly awaiting content in general. Mmmmmm, content.

[jimsmyth]

Hafidha is pre-Lau, as well.

It makes sense to me that Chaz-watching had given Reyes the idea of non-Evil gammas.  Perhaps he was getting one of his degrees when she converted?

I'm guessing he spotted a report of a Secret Service agent with some sort of rapid wasting disease (aka Gates Syndrome), and did his research before riding in on his white horse.

I also suspect Hafidha-vision is covered in her Beta-mythology as telling when someone has "messed with" her files.  With knowledge of Gammas, she was able to correlate that form of "messing-with" to gammabilities in use.

(Do we have any other cases of anomaloid/anomaloid interactions?  It might also be a "natural" result of having her mythology messed with by a non-standard other mythology.  Maybe Tim Miner would have a correlating effect trying to read Chaz as he mirrored, for instance.  I know Chaz went up against the Invisible Man, but that was more of an end-run around a power than a power/power interaction.  Or maybe that's why he got those headaches.))

[BeatriceEagle]

I also suspect Hafidha-vision is covered in her Beta-mythology as telling when someone has "messed with" her files.  With knowledge of Gammas, she was able to correlate that form of "messing-with" to gammabilities in use.

The thing about Hafidha's first-stage powers is that it's the only one we ever saw her have.  She never displayed any ability that we were told of to see if non-anomaloids had done something on a computer.  It's possible that that could have been part of her manifestation, and we weren't told, but I like to think that the PTB would have at least alluded to it.

And if that's the case, that Hafidha's first-stage powers were only seeing the Anomaly, then that says something about how the Anomaly interacts with the world.

(As for Hafidha and Reyes, they have a weird relationship that I definitely want to see more of the inner workings of.  And we're getting pieces of it this season, in "Lucky Day" and "Wind-Up Boogeyman.")

[Elizabeth Bear]

I think you guys are confusing Brady's attitude towards anomaloids with Reyes', frankly. I realize you have reasons not to like the man, but the idea that to him, all anomaloids are monsters or objects of study is fanon, not canon. *g*

If anything, Reyes seems to think they can *all* be helped.

And Hafidha's first-stage manifestation is not limited to spotting anomalous influences, and never has been. I refer you to "Breathe," for context.

[iblori58]

When did Chaz first show "betability"?  Did he always have it?

[BeatriceEagle]

And Hafidha's first-stage manifestation is not limited to spotting anomalous influences, and never has been. I refer you to "Breathe," for context.

*rereads a bit of "Breath*

Aha!  My mistake.  So I suppose the anomaly-sensing could have come after she learned about gammas (possibly?), which, if true, would still say something interesting about the Anomaly.

[jimsmyth]

When did Chaz first show "betability"?  Did he always have it?

I believe it's his bio which posits that he has had it since birth.  I'm told being born is quite traumatic (I seem to have blocked the memory of mine from my mind, which would confirm that), so it may be so.

He has certainly had it from a young age.

[jimsmyth]

And Hafidha's first-stage manifestation is not limited to spotting anomalous influences, and never has been. I refer you to "Breathe," for context.

*rereads a bit of "Breath*

Aha!  My mistake.  So I suppose the anomaly-sensing could have come after she learned about gammas (possibly?), which, if true, would still say something interesting about the Anomaly.

Her betability was described as "perfect pitch for computers".  files or computers that have been gamma'd might simply be out of tune.

It may be that she always did that, but only later correlated it with gammas.

[tylik]

I believe it's his bio which posits that he has had it since birth.  I'm told being born is quite traumatic (I seem to have blocked the memory of mine from my mind, which would confirm that), so it may be so.

He has certainly had it from a young age.

It has been mentioned before that a newborn probably wouldn't survive the anomaly, but a nine month old child would.

I'm not sure my own lack of remembering being born is particularly significant - looking at how my memory works now, I suspect I didn't have the meta structures in place to index memories in a meaningful way. But I don't really remember much before I was about eighteen months old. (And a sullen, opinionated toddler I was, too.)

[jimsmyth]

I believe it's his bio which posits that he has had it since birth.  I'm told being born is quite traumatic (I seem to have blocked the memory of mine from my mind, which would confirm that), so it may be so.

He has certainly had it from a young age.

It has been mentioned before that a newborn probably wouldn't survive the anomaly, but a nine month old child would.

I'm not sure my own lack of remembering being born is particularly significant - looking at how my memory works now, I suspect I didn't have the meta structures in place to index memories in a meaningful way. But I don't really remember much before I was about eighteen months old. (And a sullen, opinionated toddler I was, too.)

I think it extremely unlikely that he was born that way; from a nutricional-requirement standpoint.

We know he had betastacized before his mother died.  Given his height, he must have gotten a well-balanced diet growing up, at leas through the early stages.  Not nearly an expert on that, though.)

I suspect Chaz' mental indexing was firmly in place once he Beta'd. 


...And commenting on "sullen and opinionated" would be more than my life is worth. 

[Felicia1066]

But I don't really remember much before I was about eighteen months old.

It always amazes me when people say that. I mean, I know it happens, but - I don't remember much before the age of four or five. I just can't fathom what it would be like to remember things that happened when you were a toddler.


As for Chaz, I've always wondered if there isn't a part of him that believes - and carries the guilt for it - that Addie had to prostitute herself in order to feed him. We know he knows about the drugs, and he expresses himself fairly logically and rationally about it in Knock on Coffins, but feelings aren't rational, and kids have this tendency to take on the blame for anything that's wrong with their parents....

[nebula]

I believe it's his bio which posits that he has had it since birth.  I'm told being born is quite traumatic (I seem to have blocked the memory of mine from my mind, which would confirm that), so it may be so.

He has certainly had it from a young age.

It has been mentioned before that a newborn probably wouldn't survive the anomaly, but a nine month old child would.

I'm not sure my own lack of remembering being born is particularly significant - looking at how my memory works now, I suspect I didn't have the meta structures in place to index memories in a meaningful way. But I don't really remember much before I was about eighteen months old. (And a sullen, opinionated toddler I was, too.)

I think it extremely unlikely that he was born that way; from a nutricional-requirement standpoint.

We know he had betastacized before his mother died.  Given his height, he must have gotten a well-balanced diet growing up, at leas through the early stages.  Not nearly an expert on that, though.)

I suspect Chaz' mental indexing was firmly in place once he Beta'd. 


...And commenting on "sullen and opinionated" would be more than my life is worth. 

Chaz could have been breastfed as a baby quite successfully - even with an increased calorie requirement. And if his mother had continued to supplement him with breastmilk even after weaning, then he wouldn't have needed anything more. Breastmilk works on a supply and demand basis, so she could have easily produced enough milk - and that would have given him an excellent start to life. Breastfed babies digest their food very efficiently, so "training" the digestive system like could have helped when he was older.

[tylik]

See, now that seems kind of odd for me. Heck, it seems odd that earlier than about eighteen months I only remember bits and pieces, and often without that much context. One of my earlier memories is of being in the crib in the northwest bedroom of the cap hill house (though this was before everything got mapped on to compass points - and this was after I'd been moved into that room after managing to pull a large portion of plaster off the wall in my previous bedroom) and holding on to the side while yelling my head off because my mom had given me water, not milk, in my bottle, and I wanted milk. But while I was kind of indignant, I mostly kept it up because I liked jumping up and down and yelling.

(I do gather my memory is kind of weird, though of course I don't another for comparison. My advisor still believes that I have an eidetic memory when I'm not in a lot of pain, and that it's okay for me - which implies that he thinks it's not okay for most people and I haven't really pursued his whole line of reasoning there. I rather suspect he's wrong about it, but since I haven't found formal criteria for such things, I guess I can't really say. My auditory memory is pretty good if I'm paying attention, and my visual memory isn't bad, but I'm pretty terrible at sequence if I can't pull it out of the audio.

[Jezabella49]

I have a very visual memory.  I remember my first birthday on account of the graham cracker, applesauce and banana which combination was a cake-and-candle substitute.