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Author Topic: 3x09, "The Small Dark Movie of Your Life"  (Read 25573 times)
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Joe Sherry
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« Reply #300 on: June 16, 2011, 08:52:03 pm »

But, again, where is Witch Mountain in this scenario? They'd both have to be really far gone to think the Puppetmaster was a good idea.

But what does Daphne's death do to them in terms of further cracks and putting them in a place where their control slips beyond their grasp?

That's less of an escape than a further breaking.  But I've been fearing the worst for Chaz since Refining Fire.  I tend not to see things coming.
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Leah Bobet
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« Reply #301 on: June 16, 2011, 11:55:28 pm »

When we talk about ECR, we're really talking about being dragged out of our comfort zones.

Now look at the three season ending set-pieces we've had so far (and for this purpose I'm including the spillover into the start of the next season, because the climax of Unicorn Evils is part and parcel of the S2 season ender): S1: Refining Fire, Chaz is tortured almost to death and spends months recovering, with some psych/character changes as a result, I'm not certain harder is the right word, but he is stripped down towards some essential core of Chazness mentally as much as physically. S2:Not Alone/Unicorn Evils: Hafidha is manipulated into going off the reservation, Chaz is forced into a situation in which he has to seriously consider killing himself and Hafidha. Over the course of S3 Hafidha's situation forces him into taking on a leadership role that at times supplants that of Reyes. S3: Small Dark Movie: Daphne dies and Chaz is the one who has to confirm that with the Mirror, and what that does to him psychologically remains to be seen.

If you guys don't mind humouring me: What's made this third one so emotionally different from the two before?

I am also asking because this is honestly not the general tenor of the reaction I anticipated.
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txanne
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« Reply #302 on: June 17, 2011, 12:30:07 am »

What were y'all expecting? I'm honestly confused. How did the Powers that Be not see this coming?

To answer your question...Daphne was the team's heart. Reyes = brain; Esther = spine; the rest aren't obvious to me, but those three are clear as day. Now that their center is gone, what are they going to do? Brady's going to step up, but as much as I love him, he's not the people person that Daphne was.
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jennygadget
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« Reply #303 on: June 17, 2011, 12:54:07 am »


If you guys don't mind humouring me: What's made this third one so emotionally different from the two before?

I am also asking because this is honestly not the general tenor of the reaction I anticipated.

Ha!  I was actually in the middle of responding to that same bit from dwg's post.  Smiley  So, in case this helps:

This analysis assumes that the threat of death was the main axe being hung over the team in those other season finales.  To me it wasn't - it was loss of self.  Chaz, his foe defeated, had resigned himself to dying.  He survived in no small part because Daphne wouldn't let him die, and he spent a good year (a lifetime, really, one assumes) reconciling his new self with his old.  Hafs pleaded for death because she had already lost herself and did not want to live as someone else.  Chaz refused, despite the knowledge that she may never be who she once was ever again.  What I took from all this was that the whole point of "there are no fates worse than death" is to convince Chaz and Hafs that what they fear is still better than death.

(there is possibly something missing from all this regarding my own fears, personal demons, and bouts with depression, but I will leave that out for now)

To further answer your question:

Since loss of self and surviving stuff people think is worse than death seemed to be themes before, I honestly was kinda rolling my eyes at the idea that a main character would die (before the last season) - because why?  How does that fit the themes?  What does that do?  From my perspective, they, er - you :p  - already showed that you would make good on your threats.  So going all the way to killing off a character would be rather like using a sledgehammer to open up a watermelon.   Especially when that character feels insanely real.

Which isn't to say that the writing in the ep itself (or any of them) was a sledgehammer - the exact opposite.  It's more that, as I've said elsewebs, the role-playing with the lj's can be rather like sitting next to the cannons during the 1812 overture, at least when it comes to things like Daphne dying.  The music as written and performed may be amazing, but I can't really hear it once the cannons start/characters start dying.

(this analogy possibly demonstrates only that I know nothing about music, cannons, and the 1812 Overture, but roll with it anyway)

Which is part of why I was babbling on about fiction, literature, and control.  I think what I'm realizing is that if you lose too much of your control/fourth wall then you get the opposite approach/problem of what dwg is defining as "pulp".  There is balance between not being challenged at all and being overwhelmed, and "character death" + this kind of role playing seems to tip it over to overwhelming for me.

One last thing: I should point out that I read the first season finale on delay as it were.  I didn't "know" Hafs, Chaz, and Harpy at the time.  From what other people tell me, some of my reactions to this finale are actually pretty on par - if possibly kicked up a few notches? - to how they took Refining Fire as well as Chaz's lj going blank.  I'm wondering how the different reactions track to when one came on board, how much one follows the ljs/tweets, and reader's identification characters.
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MadGastronomer
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« Reply #304 on: June 17, 2011, 12:58:16 am »

What bothers me is the precision of the kill, Singh's a doctor, not an expert in high-speed vehicle impacts. I can buy his Bug stealing the opportunity to create mayhem and grief, but the mechanism is one with so many variables and potential outcomes I'm not entirely comfortable with it.

Whaddaya wanna bet Chaz could do it?
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txanne
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« Reply #305 on: June 17, 2011, 01:04:00 am »

Jeez, MG. Yes, he probably could.
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jennygadget
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« Reply #306 on: June 17, 2011, 01:04:18 am »

What bothers me is the precision of the kill, Singh's a doctor, not an expert in high-speed vehicle impacts. I can buy his Bug stealing the opportunity to create mayhem and grief, but the mechanism is one with so many variables and potential outcomes I'm not entirely comfortable with it.

Whaddaya wanna bet Chaz could do it?

Oh, I totally had that thought too.  Smiley  Especially when ppl were talking about gammas borrowing powers.

But, again, where is Witch Mountain in this scenario?

I do not know, but for some reason that question also brings this one to mind:  Where the hell is Renee?  (Besides unwillingly hiding in plain sight.)
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Elizabeth Bear
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« Reply #307 on: June 17, 2011, 01:13:53 am »

Jeffy...I see your point, but I'm not sure I buy it. Whether that's because your point is inaccurate, or because I can't handle the truth, is left as an exercise for TPTB, who still owe me lots of chicken.

TRM, I miss Angry Kitteh a really lot.

Angry Kitteh had a recent appearance in comments, I think in Chaz's blog.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chaz: "As if puberty weren't stressful enough."

Todd: "See? That's why we're better than all those other law enforcement agencies. Correct use of the subjunctive."
txanne
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« Reply #308 on: June 17, 2011, 01:22:23 am »

Oh, found it. Thanks. I missed it because I haven't seen the movie. Nerd fail!
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Lioness
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« Reply #309 on: June 17, 2011, 01:40:10 am »

How can I delete all my posts, please?
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glinda_w
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« Reply #310 on: June 17, 2011, 01:47:31 am »

When we talk about ECR, we're really talking about being dragged out of our comfort zones.

If you guys don't mind humouring me: What's made this third one so emotionally different from the two before?

I am also asking because this is honestly not the general tenor of the reaction I anticipated.

I've got... yeah, ECR. There is a fourth wall, sort of, between me and these characters, but it's nothing like any other fourth wall I've experienced, coming from the audience side. These characters are so much more real to me than, for example, a character on an actual TV show. This is even more so with those characters who have LiveJournals, and whose characters have friended us/me; we've carried on conversations with them. I've got, at one remove, the shoggoth that Chaz sent MG. I've cared about these people, far more than I ever have in other fandoms.

(My first fandom was the Terry Pratchett fandom, from early 1995 through 2001, though I'm still involved peripherally. My other fandom was the Callahans stuff, people who'd read Spider Robinson's Callahan's Cross-time Saloon, et seq. In both cases, though, I (and others) got involved with other fans, rather than seeing the characters as three-dimensional characters in this world - so, in both cases, fourth wall very firmly in place. In the IRC and Usenet versions, Callahan is behind the bar, serving you your beverage of choice - but his interactions are coded in, he doesn't feel as though there's a real person there, and contact takes place between the rest of us who *aren't* characters in the stories.)

For me, as txanne already said, Daphne is the team's heart. And... two weeks ago, she was worrying about Chaz, who was out BASE jumping - off a bridge. Last Thursday, she was teasing Sol, "You call the Maenad your mistress?". Sunday morning, she was grousing a bit about getting called in, but at least she and T had a chance to sleep in on two mornings.  (And there's some nice dark delicious irony, if irony is delicious to you: Harpy posts "...And there goes the weekend"; Sol replies with "Sorry 'bout that, Ma'am.", and Harpy tells him "You can't even go out for coffee without things getting weird!" Foreshadowing, we can haz it.)

And then, this. All of this. My friend-brain is spending a lot of time looking for missing pens in the restroom.

What will this do to Chaz, losing his big sister? It breaks my heart; he has no family now, except Hafs, in her Faraday cage in Idlewood. It hurts to think of him shutting down, closing off. I suspect that's pretty much how he got himself through school and through life as a foster kid. He's now been part of a family of choice, and losing that? What sort of stressor or crack will *that* do to him?

So friend-brain is very much in charge here; I've come to feel I know these guys. (Yes, I know, they're fictional characters, written by one or several of you PTBs. But they're a hell of a lot more real to me than some people I've lived or worked next to.)

Every reader, being different, brings something different to the material they're reading. I don't expect that my reactions would necessarily track well with those of someone else. When Chaz told T: ""She's gone." - that triggered something that happened to me 27 1/4 years ago. It really isn't something I think of that often; people heal, we move past; but that "She's gone" took me right back there, to the scents and sounds of the Cardiac ICU up at Scripps. After coming through a quad bypass and (unexpected) aortic valve replacement just fine, there were complications, and all of a sudden things were not fine at all. And I went into that Cardiac ICU, and saw the body hooked up to all the monitors and ghods know what else was there; the body was that of my mother, but She. Was. No. Longer. There. (Had to wait for the neuro to confirm, but... yeah.)

(And then there was trying to cope with some of my friends and co-workers, and some of her friends, who insisted I shouldn't let them take her off life support, that there had to be a chance she'd recover. And there I was, knowing she just wasn't there any more.

Anyway, enough of this, bleeding this all over everyone, but...yeah, major ECR.

And extremely-well-written major ECR. I can't say that enough.

I'm not angry over this; I can't imagine our PTBs playing with our minds, in the frivolous sense, by having someone we care about die without it being necessary. I'm not angry about the story-from-the-author's-mind taking us into such a sad place. But then that fourth wall shatters, and my friend-brain is sincerely mourning a fictional character.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 02:04:41 am by glinda_w » Logged


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glinda_w
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« Reply #311 on: June 17, 2011, 01:53:08 am »

How can I delete all my posts, please?

*frets* I hope I haven't said anything that's led you to want to do this...

I'd hate to lose your presence here; you're very high on my list of Good People(TM).

But... your need to do whatever you may need to do trumps anyone else's not wanting you to do it.

(May I offer you a hug?)
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Still will I harvest beauty where it grows...    --Edna ST. Vincent Millay
Lioness
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« Reply #312 on: June 17, 2011, 02:03:43 am »

How can I delete all my posts, please?

*frets* I hope I haven't said anything that's led you to want to do this...

I'd hate to lose your presence here; you're very high on my list of Good People(TM).

But... your need to do whatever you may need to do trumps anyone else's not wanting you to do it.

(May I offer you a hug?)

I'll save the hug for a time when I can properly enjoy it, OK? The thought and the offer are very kind, though.

You certainly have not done anything here (or anywhere else) to make me want to leave. (I'm not yet capable of being coherent and G-rated in talking about what did make me want to leave, so I cannot yet write that down. Maybe I will manage it later. Edited to add: have done so. Is now a new topic in Meta.)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 02:36:27 am by Lioness » Logged
jeffy
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« Reply #313 on: June 17, 2011, 02:17:55 am »

I do not know, but for some reason that question also brings this one to mind:  Where the hell is Renee?  (Besides unwillingly hiding in plain sight.)

Hey, did we ever account for all the quotes that appeared in that season teaser way back when? Wasn't there a Renee bit in there? Maybe the episode aired and we all forgot it... I'm a little creeped out at the thought.
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jeffy
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« Reply #314 on: June 17, 2011, 02:32:22 am »

If you guys don't mind humouring me: What's made this third one so emotionally different from the two before?

I am also asking because this is honestly not the general tenor of the reaction I anticipated.

I, too, am a little croggled that y'all PTB wouldn't have anticipated some of the reaction. I'm curious how it differs from your expectations.

As for why this one's different, well, she's dead. Chaz was sorely wounded, but at the end of the episode he was still hanging in there and over the hiatus we saw him slowly getting better. Hafs went AWOL and then to Idlewood, but we can still hold out hope that she'll somehow beat the bug back.

Daphne's gone. And we were left at the end of that hopeless week of vigil hearing her last breath and knowing she won't be back.

Little more final...
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