~The List~

[jennygadget]

....I considered including important LJ entries, like cvilette's last post and standuponit's first. But that's going a bit too far, don't you think?

Hey,  if you do work on this, I'd be willing to help.

The whole timeline of everything has been confusing me, bc the current season is several months behind the LJ entries.  And of course, bc we have SU: the web show, SU: the Television show, the SU world as depicted in the TV show/web event  (or should that be two things?), and the SU world as the characters experience it*.  So there are really several overlapping timelines.  The current timeline on the wiki is useful  (and thanks to everyone who put it together), but it still takes some research to figure out how the LJ entries fit into the past and current seasons.

So, I started working on timelines - but I haven't gotten very far.  Mostly just a timeline of airdates for SU: the web show.

I think what I have so far is saved in my gmail account, so I shouldn't have to wait until I can get my laptop somewhere I have service in order to get at it.  I'll go see and if it is I'll post it here is anyone wants it.

*based on something TPTB said about Chaz trip with Hafidha being a lost episode on the TV show, but the TV show depicting more dramatic events than what really happened while Chaz and Hafidha were there.

[makito]

Jenny, if you're ever willing to sift through all that with me that would be awesome. There are some events in the LJs and such, even the less important ones, that people just miss, and it could come up later in the story (Like, there's speculation that the "funeral" line in "Wind-Up Boogeymen" is referring to Hafidha's guy, Erik, and there was talk about the LJ et cetera, and I, being comparatively new, had no idea what they were talking about. Or Daphne and T.'s wedding! We only hear about it in the LJ and very briefly do we hear about T. at all in the actual written stuff--in the extra "Kansas," and I think that's it.)

Perhaps it should be a whole other section? A "read and catch up at your leisure" sort of thing? Perhaps notes next to the episodes or extras saying "you might want to read this lj entry as well."

Like you said, it's hard with the overlapping timelines. Real-time LJ entires, then finding out what they were talking about like six months later.

[jeffy]

makito, this is awesome work. I have taken the liberty of converting it into a new "Reading Order" page in the wiki: http://wiki.shadowunit.org/index.php/Reading_Order and would recommend that future updates be put there since, you know, this version will be out of date on Sunday. (yay!)

It'd be great to have the livejournal content put into a release-order timeline, but I would agree with others here that it might be better to separate that from this. It's already a little daunting (maybe we should add word counts for each item so folks can see that the extras are relatively tiny :-)

I know makito mentioned it before, but some of the wiki wonks have done similarly incredible work sorting the content by internal chronology on the Timeline page: http://wiki.shadowunit.org/index.php/Timeline including a bunch of the livejournal stuff.

[Cal]

Wow.  The stuff people get up to when you turn your back for a bit!

This is all pretty amazing work, people.  ~applauds~

[jennygadget]

Jenny, if you're ever willing to sift through all that with me that would be awesome.

I totally am.  The issue for me at the moment is internet access.  I have it at work (where I'm not supposed to be doing this, but do anyway)  and when I visit my parents house (which I do at least once a week bc they also TiVo CM for me, as I work too late to watch it when it airs).  But internet at home is spotty and likely will be for a few more weeks at least.  So I'm willing to help, I just might be a little slow at it.  (I'm supposed to get it free cuz my city is cool like that, but I don't really cuz AT&T is not cool and my city is a wimp.  So I'm trying to figure out the cheapest way to boost the signal so it's the closest thing to free.)

Perhaps it should be a whole other section? A "read and catch up at your leisure" sort of thing? Perhaps notes next to the episodes or extras saying "you might want to read this lj entry as well."

Like you said, it's hard with the overlapping timelines. Real-time LJ entires, then finding out what they were talking about like six months later.

I was thinking more along the lines of actually doing several timelines.  Like, taking your reading list and adding air dates (when we can find them).  Then another that does a timeline of TV eps - including the "unaired" ones.  And then expanding on the timeline that Jeffy mentions above.

[jennygadget]

I know makito mentioned it before, but some of the wiki wonks have done similarly incredible work sorting the content by internal chronology on the Timeline page: http://wiki.shadowunit.org/index.php/Timeline including a bunch of the livejournal stuff.

The timeline is indeed useful and awesome and must have taken a lot of work.

But for some reason it's a little confusing for me to read.  I think it's a combination of the events listed seeming very random and the formatting not having any heirarchy - other than being divided by seasons.

I guess part of what I hoping to help do is make it easier for other newbies that come after me to see not just when stuff aired and when stuff happened, but have an easier time understanding when stuff aired vs. when stuff happened.  If that makes any sense at all.

And not being a wiki wonk, I'm not sure how to do that and a little hesitant to go around messing up other people's work.

[jeffy]

But for some reason it's a little confusing for me to read.  I think it's a combination of the events listed seeming very random and the formatting not having any heirarchy - other than being divided by seasons.

I guess part of what I hoping to help do is make it easier for other newbies that come after me to see not just when stuff aired and when stuff happened, but have an easier time understanding when stuff aired vs. when stuff happened.  If that makes any sense at all.

And not being a wiki wonk, I'm not sure how to do that and a little hesitant to go around messing up other people's work.

For you and any other non wiki wonks out there, may I suggest that if you have problems with any of the pages and either don't know how to fix them or don't know how to implement the fix, you can still help by adding your concerns to the "discussion" page for the relevant wiki page. The people who concern themselves with the page in question will see your comments and may be able to help resolve the problem (or teach you how to do it).

To add to the discussion page you still need a wiki login and have to be logged in.
Click on the little discussion tab at the top of the page you want to talk about.
Read the discussion so far to see if your comment has already been discussed.
You can either click the "edit" button to edit the discussion like a regular wiki page or you can click the little "+" button to add a new section for your comment.
You can sign and date your comment with the wiki character string of 4 tildes "~~~~"

Often a page author will already know about the problem and just doesn't know how to fix it, so if you've got ideas, share!

[jennygadget]

Thanks

I actually just signed up to be able to help edit the wiki.

And I was about to add the airdates and author's names to the Reading Order  (the ones I have so far anyway)  but I just wanted to be certain that the extras listed below each episode are extras originally linked to within the episode - and thus the assumption is that they have the same airdate, but are not attributed to a single PTB.

If that's not the case, I'll have to rethink how I was going to add the airdates.

[makito]

If that's not the case, I'll have to rethink how I was going to add the airdates.

Nope, no airdates except for the episodes and...I'm pretty sure the easter eggs. Part of my original reason for doing the list myself is I didn't find the airdates on the dvd extras, even though I was fairly sure the list was in order of publication. I kind of put them together based on what we knew in the series and who each episode was about (which is why, for instance, I put Living Word and Ring Finger near Knock on Coffins), and they're still generally in the order the list is (except Frostbite, I believe--I couldn't figure out where to fit it).

The ones that are easter eggs in the episode specifically are indented under the episode (or extra) they're linked from, if that helps at all.


...At least we only really have season 1 to worry about as of now, since we know the release of the stuff in realtime now.

[Emma Bull]

Timeline! AWESOME! Ooooh, good work! I might suggest bumping the WTF BBQ closer to the top; Daphne is still pretty new to the team during that BBQ, and there's maybe some useful work it can do introducing characters. Otherwise, I think this is a perfect roadmap! Man, I am so impressed. The cool quotient around here...

[jennygadget]

The ones that are easter eggs in the episode specifically are indented under the episode (or extra) they're linked from, if that helps at all.

Yup.

That's what I thought and that's what I meant.

I've figured out some of the airdates for the haitus extras, but other than that I've just got the episode airdates.

I'll try to get to work on adding those then.

I need to go close up the library, so I won't get it done tonight unless the internet goddesses are smiling on me when I get home.  But hopefully they will be included on the wiki sometime tomorrow morning - or at least by Friday - as I plan out heading one of those days to my parents in order to do research on where I might buy a thingamajig to boost the free signal and get me internet at my home base.

[jennygadget]

I might suggest bumping the WTF BBQ closer to the top; Daphne is still pretty new to the team during that BBQ, and there's maybe some useful work it can do introducing characters.

But the air date wasn't until late season 1, yes?

I thought I remembered there being some minor kerfluffle about some of the season 1 dvd extras being leaked onto the nets months before the actual dvd set came out...and folks getting all mad bc they thought it would be spoilery .....and how would they avoid the spoilers if everyone on the internets was talking about them....and then it turns out they weren't spoilery after all.

But I could be wrong.....

(ducks)

Hmmmm...perhaps a special mention though?  Like "This is the orginal order, but these particular extras can be read at any time.  We just don't recommend doing the equivilant of reading the Magician's Nephew first."

[Ada]

Hmmmm...perhaps a special mention though?  Like "This is the orginal order, but these particular extras can be read at any time.  We just don't recommend doing the equivilant of reading the Magician's Nephew first."

<offtopic>Never mind that C. S. Lewis did recommend reading The Magician's Nephew first.  </offtopic>

[jennygadget]

Hmmmm...perhaps a special mention though?  Like "This is the orginal order, but these particular extras can be read at any time.  We just don't recommend doing the equivilant of reading the Magician's Nephew first."

<offtopic>Never mind that C. S. Lewis did recommend reading The Magician's Nephew first.  </offtopic>

(Our illustrious PTB aside) It's not always a good idea to follow the recommendations of authors.

Reading the WTFBBQ earlier than near the end of season 1 is a good suggestion.  Reading anything before The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, is, imho, NOT.  No matter what Lewis himself said.  If for no other reason than that I don't know many fans of The Chronicles of Narnia who read The Magician's Nephew first.  It's just not nearly as good of a book.

(Although, to be fair, that opinion might have something to do with my age, the age of the other fans I know, and the date at which they decided to start messing with the order of the box sets.)

Sorry, I tend to go a bit overboard on the topic sometimes bc I worked at big box bookstore at the time the first movie came out.  And it was annoying as hell to explain to customers why the "second" book was being made into a movie first.  Even if I hadn't already thought it was the better way to read it, I would have started recommending they read tLtWatW first.  For the same reason they made that the first movie: "in media res" is usually the better way to get people hooked on the story.

(edited bc I'm so used to writing the code myself I keep forgetting to punch the buttons to get the proper punctuation for the tags.)

[makito]

((Re: Narnia: Being the young whippersnapper that I am, when I was about seven I bought The Magician's Nephew because the book catalogues said it was first. I tried to read it a couple years later and, even having seen the BBC cartoon of tLtWatW, I could not understand a damn thing that was going on. I've always advocated reading the books in order of publication since then *nod*))

The BBQ was another one I struggled with. How far up would you recommend we push it? Chronologically, maybe? If not where it is right now, my head wants to put it maybe after Handful of Dust, but that's just off the top of my head without looking at the dates because I am lazy.