1x02, "Knock On Coffins"

[lurkerchris]

Really really good ep. Thanks.

Since I'm left-handed, I have a tendency to play spot-the-lefty. So it pleases me that Hafs is one of us. (She even uses the mouse with her left hand! I'm not that talented.) And Reyes too? He wears his gun on his left side, anyway...

[etherjammer]

And Reyes too? He wears his gun on his left side, anyway...

I couldn't tell if that was meant to be a lefty's holster or a cross-draw.  Either way it says interesting things about the good doctor.

[Elizabeth Bear]

Well, I'm not actually going to answer that question. Ahem.

But you might note the title of Episode 3.

[etherjammer]

Well, I'm not actually going to answer that question. Ahem.

But you might note the title of Episode 3.

Fascinating.  Now I'm looking forward to it even more.  Especially since, thinking about it, poor Hafs is sinister...

[swampyankee2u]

I liked how Sol's experience and age colors things, and his sense of humor (which is amplified by knowing, again through experience, exactly how to get people). The way he keeps a lot of himself hidden, and revels in it, but doesn't mind that Reyes can sometimes catch him out.

I think what I like best about Sol is that he is so damaged yet so functional. PTSD and other traumatic psyche formations don't go away ... but that can be molded into something very refined and functional. If you talk to mental health professionals dealing with Veterans of Iraq II and Afghanistan, that is generally the goal.

The Jonestown connection fits as part of the seeking to mold/morph post an experience like Vietnam.

That leads to a bit of a spoiler theory about Hafs, but I will sit quietly in the corner with my presumptions, I will hug them and pet them and call them "George".

[Elizabeth Bear]

Aww. If you don't share your theories, then you don't have bragging rights if they prove true.

Todd has what we would refer to in a dog as a bulletproof disposition. or at least that's how I see him. Doesn't mean he doesn't get hurt.

Just means he's not predisposed to responding to getting hurt by turning crazy, or mean.

[BruceCohenPDX]

Todd has what we would refer to in a dog as a bulletproof disposition. or at least that's how I see him. Doesn't mean he doesn't get hurt.

I see him as having spent a long time and a lot of energy building his persona, both as a way to present himself to the world and as  a personality able to deal over the long term with his issues.   I think he sees the issues (PTSD, the question of who he works for and what he does, and the feeling of isolation he has from most of the rest of the world) as things imposed from without.  That is, he isn't worried about what he is himself so much as what he has to do to remain himself in the face of the crap the world throws at him.

When you invest that kind of capital in doing something you use it as often as possible, and don't change it for something else easily.  So he hangs onto the mythology he's created about himself.  But it's not like he's a pathological liar, who can't tell what's true and what's false, or an obsessive who tells lies because he he can't tell the truth.  He's just making sure the terrain around him has clear lines of fire for him, but is an obstacle course for anyone else trying to get in close.

[Zacharde]

He's just making sure the terrain around him has clear lines of fire for him, but is an obstacle course for anyone else trying to get in close.

Thats remarkably easy to visualize. Gold star for analogizing! (A word I suspect I have made up)

[swampyankee2u]

Aww. If you don't share your theories, then you don't have bragging rights if they prove true.

Todd has what we would refer to in a dog as a bulletproof disposition. or at least that's how I see him. Doesn't mean he doesn't get hurt.

Just means he's not predisposed to responding to getting hurt by turning crazy, or mean.

Actually, in this world I am great at being wrong --

My theory is actually Todd has a lesson for anomoloids, specifically Hafs. The chances are fairly remote, but you can respond to that without as well without turning crazy or mean.

Maybe you have to be Pagan to do it. Or recovering already from your mythology when it takes hold.

Is it timing, temperment or both (to take the dog analogy further)

[Elizabeth Bear]

It's a nice theory. I like it.

[lunarsara]

Maybe you have to be Pagan to do it. Or recovering already from your mythology when it takes hold.

Is it timing, temperment or both (to take the dog analogy further)

Why Pagan?  To my (spiritual, but mostly atheistic) mind, Paganism is just a non-Christian religion.  Is there something that sets it apart?

When you say "mythology" here I assume you're talking about the SU jargon and not something directly related to religion.  Your theory makes a lot of sense. 

Seems to me, though, if it is about timing and temperament, we'd have a lot more betas.  I wonder if there actually are a lot of betas out there and they've managed to stay undiscovered...

[glinda_w]

Seems to me, though, if it is about timing and temperament, we'd have a lot more betas.  I wonder if there actually are a lot of betas out there and they've managed to stay undiscovered...

My half-baked theory is that they don't survive the breakthrough, for one reason or another. That, or they die fairly quickly, basically from side effects of starvation - 5,000+ calories a day is a helluva lot, and if they don't know they need that much...

Speculation, we can haz. And so much fun...

[CJ]

I've been wondering why so few betas, too.  And why the only two known wound up in fields compatible with eventually becoming joining the FBI and specifically Shadow Unit. 

Is the difference in the original personality?  So that the ones who become gammas are somehow more inclined to the "dark side" before the crack shows and they become something more than they were?  That would, possibly, imply that the anomaly is the same for a beta and a gamma.  A cynic might say that there are more people inclined to the "dark side" than the "light side", and that's why there are so few betas.  We know that some percentage (do we have a number on that?) of gammas burn out at breakthrough.  There's the theory that the anomaly has always been here, but it takes a society that's going to have a lot of food resources to keep a gamma (or a beta) alive.  So that would account for some more theoretical betas converting but dying not long after.  But even so, if the anomaly is the same and the difference is the base personality, you'd have to be pretty cynical to have the numbers of people on the dark side and the light side that skewed. 

Is the difference in the anomaly itself?  Is the anomaly that makes a beta different in some way to the anomaly that makes a gamma?  So if you go with the parasite analogy, the beta parasite and the gamma parasite are two different subspecies of the same thing.  I'm inclined to believe this, though I'm still really leery of the parasite analogy.  But if the beta version of the anomaly is considerably more rare than the gamma version, it would account for the rarity of betas.

We know the gamma anomaly gets in through a crack.  Something happens to the host.  Is there a time between conversion and breakthrough for a gamma?  Between the start of metabolic changes and the external manifestation?  We know that gap exists for betas.  We don't know when Chaz converted (probably very young).  We know when Hafidha converted (the illness and changes in her life).  There's a timespan between Hafidha's conversion and her breakthrough.  Chaz has had a far longer run converted and has yet to break through.  Was there a crack of some sort for Chaz and Hafidha?  Chaz had a rough enough childhood that there are plenty of possible events to be a crack, but we don't know if there was some specific event that triggered Hafidha's conversion or not.

There could, of course, be more betas out there.  Since the WTF is looking for dangerous individuals, someone who isn't killing people or causing major damage isn't going to pop up on their radar. 

I don't think that constitutes a theory, really, except the bit about the anomalies behind a beta and a gamma being subspecies of the same thing.  But it's stuff I consider whenever we get new bits of information. 

[el_jefe]

Do we know that Chaz hasn't had a breakthrough? The mind can suppress all sorts of things. 

Also, they should carry around MRE's. At 3000 calories each, they would be helpful in an emergency.

[txanne]

Do we know that Chaz hasn't had a breakthrough? The mind can suppress all sorts of things. 

Chaz hadn't had his breakthrough as of s1e2 (because somebody else was doing the pattern recognition). But he did have it sometime between then and last month(?)--he astonished Daphne in his LJ by correctly telling her the amount of change in somebody's pockets based on the way it changed the drape of the trousers. OTOH, he's on record as always having been skinny and good with patterns, so maybe it's a difference of degree rather than kind.