Episode 6: Endgames DVD extra musings.

[Bunny M]

Except that that was the first pilot, created to be aired first and mucked up by Fox Television. Not that an origin episode doesn't have merit, if you feel the need for one. I like the way it's going, personally. Unless you begin at the beginning (i.e., Episode/Issue 1 is the beginning of everything), origins seem a bit forced if they're told all at once. Flashbacks seem more realistic; no one ever thinks about their whole story unless they're explaining it to someone else.

True, it was originally intended to be aired first, but I think it actually worked a little better as a later episode(s).

That said, Out of Gas was an outstanding episode, and on reflection, a better way of handling origins.

My preference is for finding out things about the character--origin or otherwise--as they become relevant in the story. Pretty much the way you find out about your friends' pasts.

True, and I agree up to a point, but then, unlike Real Life^TM, fiction has to have some semblance of sense. Which is not to say that the reader/viewer needs to have all the answers, or even get them all answered eventually, but there is generally a need to supply more answers that RL generally does.

Not that I'm in any way disparaging SU so far. It's wonderful, I love it, and I'm even growing to love all of the WTF team. (Except Frost *shudder*)

As Will pointed out some time ago in LJ-land, IIRC, I'm no wordsmith, and you folks are, and very good ones, at that.

Just offering my $0.05, as incoherent as it sometimes turns out.

[ETA:] Woot, 100th post. I's a full member now, I is. </gronk>

[Emma Bull]

You are full of membershipfulhood! (But hey, you were already, really.)

[Emma Bull]

Also, because now I'm thinking about it: realism isn't about reproducing reality; it's about reproducing the effect of reality. And sometimes the way you get that effect for the reader is through thoroughly artificial techniques.

Does that sort of make sense, at least as a place to start?

[txanne]

Also, because now I'm thinking about it: realism isn't about reproducing reality; it's about reproducing the effect of reality. And sometimes the way you get that effect for the reader is through thoroughly artificial techniques.

And unlike Zola and Flaubert, SU is actually fun to read!

No, I don't really mean that. Those guys are nifty, if you're in the mood for the slow unfurling of Teh Famlee Dramuh.

[will shetterly]

As Will pointed out some time ago in LJ-land, IIRC, I'm no wordsmith, and you folks are, and very good ones, at that.

I hope whatever I said was gentle! Because there are many ways to smith words, and our preference isn't necessarily *right*. It's just the best we can do at the time.

I admit, I was surprised when Emma decided to introduce so many characters at once. It's a hell of a stunt to pull off, but she's a hell of a writer. She was after that TV feel of the new kid being dropped into a situation where everything's moving fast, like the pilots of Homicide and ER. With visual media, it's easier to keep track: there's the big guy and the intense guy and the awkward kid and the shy kid and the quietly competent older woman and oh-my-god-how-did-they-get-Judy-Dench-in-a-recurring-role! and...

I wouldn't advise starting a series this way to a new writer. It worked okay for Shadow Unit because enough readers trust Emma and Bear and Sarah, so they were willing to take the time to learn who all these people are. For a new writer, there's the danger that an over-worked editor would say, "Too confusing! Next story!"

Well, I keep coming back to my ultimate writing advice: Do what you got to.

[dancing crow]

Also, because now I'm thinking about it: realism isn't about reproducing reality; it's about reproducing the effect of reality. And sometimes the way you get that effect for the reader is through thoroughly artificial techniques.

Does that sort of make sense, at least as a place to start?

oh totally - in theater, we used all kinds of gels and fancy effects to make the light feel "normal". You could tell if you had it right because no one noticed it.

And having lit the stage, it is then possible to look out the window and see a particularly emphatic rainbow or sunset and think about the tools required to recreate it for stage, and then think "but no one would believe it - it looks too wild".

[Elizabeth Bear]

I like to talk (endlessly and pedantically) about how art is a kind of hyper-realism. A snapshot very rarely shows you how something actually looks. But an experienced photographer's composed and balanced and fanatically controlled shot...

...does.

[txanne]

It's all about the gaze, baby! It's also all about how artists make you gaze at what they choose.

[Cal]

It worked okay for Shadow Unit because enough readers trust Emma and Bear and Sarah, so they were willing to take the time to learn who all these people are.

I think partly (at least for some of us) it also worked because we already knew some of the people in question through the LJs, and the snippets and teasers that had appeared on the site before 'Breathe' went live.  It was actually rather better than promos for a new TV series, which seem to be mostly concerned with introducing you to genre and/or one big, important character/question as a 'hook'.

Not only did we have lots of hooks--so if one didn't grab us, another was likely to--but we had a map to the younger set of characters, and suddenly it was a case of, Oh, so that's what Hafs/Daphne/Chaz looks like from outside, and these are all the people they've been talking about in code--okay, yeah, I know where I am...

At least, that's how it worked for me.

[MadGastronomer]

I agree with Cal.  The LJs were brilliant -- both as fiction and as marketing.  I'd've read SU without them, but I wouldn't have been the *instant fan* I became through the LJs.
I know that a number of TV shows have had character blogs, but I've never bothered to read even the ones from the shows I watch and consider myself a fan of.  I've tried, a couple of times, but they're generally quite dull.  Part of what made these so stellar was the fantastic interactions.  They were so <I>real</I>, where most of them read as very fake.  Plus, hey, interactive!  Extremely engaging.

[glinda_w]

The LJs were brilliant -- both as fiction and as marketing.  I'd've read SU without them, but I wouldn't have been the *instant fan* I became through the LJs.

Yes. The only other time I've fallen into any fandom was when I discovered alt.fan.pratchett back in 1995, and when I got onto alt.callahans at the same time - though the callahans stuff is more a gathering of like-minded people than an actual fandom.  I'm amused at how quickly and thoroughly I've gotten hooked by SU.

Part of what made these so stellar was the fantastic interactions.  They were so <I>real</I>, where most of them read as very fake.  Plus, hey, interactive!  Extremely engaging.

I've been talking up SU to any friends I think would be remotely interested.

I mean, where else could I have acquired the scion of a sourdough starter from a fictional character in a nonexistant TV show? 

[Bunny M]

Part of what made these so stellar was the fantastic interactions.  They were so <I>real</I>, where most of them read as very fake.  Plus, hey, interactive!  Extremely engaging.

I've been talking up SU to any friends I think would be remotely interested.

I mean, where else could I have acquired the scion of a sourdough starter from a fictional character in a nonexistant TV show? 

All too true. I must confess to being a tiny bit jealous of those of you that have been friended by them, too. But that pales compared to the coolness of interacting with people of the non-fictionally challenged persuasion. 

[Elizabeth Bear]

I'm not entirely sure, but I suspect Chaz friends people when they have commented enough that he gets tired of unscreening their comments. *g*

[MadGastronomer]

Yeah, I basically just pestered him into it.    Commented and commented and commented...

[Emma Bull]

The creation of the characters' LiveJournals was Bear's doing, and an utterly boffo idea. It gave readers a chance to get acquainted with some of the cast in a setting where there wasn't also a lot of plot to keep up with, and gave the writers a chance to explore the characters' voices and concerns. It was a huge benefit to the project.