Help with bread-baking

[AndrewJ]

So, I've been trying to make my mormor's bread recipe, which is as follows:

2 packets yeast (I've been using active dry yeast)
1/2 cup warm water
1/3 cup sugar (generous)
2 Tbsp salt
1/2 cup oil or melted margarine
2 cups hot scalded milk
1-1/2 cups cold water
10-12 cups flour (white or mixed)

Dissolve yeast in warm water. Combine sugar, oil/margarine, salt, and hot milk in mixing bowl. Add cold water to cool mixture to lukewarm. Add dissolved yeast and mix well. Gradually add flour; knead until smooth and satiny, 5-10 minutes. Place in greased bowl, cover and let rise until doubled in bulk, about 2 hours. Punch down, turn over, cover and let rise 30 minutes. Place on lightly floured surface, divide into 4 parts. Mold into balls, cover and let rest for 15 minutes. Form into loaves, place into greased bread pans, cover and let rise in a warm place until the dough fills the pans, about 1.5 hours. Bake at 350-375 for 30 to 50 minutes depending on actual oven performance. Remove from pans immediately. Cool completely on racks before bagging & storing.

Now, my problem is that my loaves keep ending up very dense, with an initially moist crumb and very crusty, not unlike a french-style bread. Mormor's bread was a lot, well, fluffier. I don't know enough about bread to know what I'm doing wrong, and due to her Alzheimer's, I can no longer go to the expert. Do I need to knead more? Less? Different yeast? Allow more time for the loaves to rise in the pans? Does it make a difference that I've been making half-batches, since I don't have a mixing bowl big enough for a full batch? Help?

[Elizabeth Bear]

Sounds like your yeast may be old?

[jimsmyth]

I would blame the yeast. Fortunately, if you need to, you can practice with yeast without going through the rest of the bread-process.

Water should be warm. Add some of the sugar to it before the yeast, if you're not getting good results. Wait until it starts bubbling up before you use it.

The other possibility might be a cold environment holding back your bread's rising. Find (or make) a warm place for it, then give it the time it needs to grow to the proper size.  In any case involving yeast, the time thing is a guess, really.

Batch size should be (almost) completely irrelevant. Smaller loaves might make a difference (mostly to cooking time), but not fewer of them.

Also.. all those "shoulds" up there? They are all best guesses, based on limited practical experience.  Much like my car repair skills, my bakiing skills are limited to "what has gone wrong before".

[eschatonic]

I agree with Jim: test your yeast. Or just throw it away and buy new yeast. Maybe try a different brand?

Other than that ... It seems like a lot of flour. That would make your bread very dense. How much flour you actually need varies with humidity and a host of other issues that I don't really understand, but try putting in just barely enough to make kneadable dough, rather than measuring out the whole recipe amount.

And you can always let it sit longer when it's rising. Have you tried leaving it for twice as long as suggested? A lot of older recipes give times like "1 hour" which occasionally turns out to be a non-clockwatcher's euphemism for "a long time, but not half the afternoon" so really anywhere from half an hour to two and a half hours.

[jeffy]

I've had good success with a sponge method (thank you Mollie Katzen) where you mix in just enough flour to the liquid/yeast mixture to make a thin-to-medium batter-like texture and let that "rise" for a while (till it's all bubbly and frothy) before adding more flour to get to kneading consistency. It gives the yeast a chance to get woken up and well-established. Been a while since I've made any bread, though since my household has gone gluten-free.

[AndrewJ]

Thanks for the tips; I think those who suggested problems with the yeast might be right, because it didn't seem to get very bubbly when I mixed it with the water. On the other hand, it's not very old at all, I think; all the packets are stamped on the back 'BEST IF USED BY 0 6 1 2 1 3 2' which I think translates into 6/12/2013, but might be 6/2012, in which case it's past it.

I've got two packets left, I'll sacrifice one (FOR SCIENCE!) and see if that's the problem.

Another possibility is that the packets claim to be for all flours, but, and I quote, "especially WHOLE GRAIN!" and I'm using white flour.

[AndrewJ]

I've got two packets left, I'll sacrifice one (FOR SCIENCE!) and see if that's the problem.

So, after following the proofing instructions on the packet and waiting 5 minutes, my conclusion is that my yeast is good, but that Mormor's recipe as written doesn't allow it to get up and going before being mixed in with the other ingredients. I also may not have had the dough warm enough while rising, especially during the last rise in the pans; I have a memory of Mormor letting the bread rise in a warmed oven (per America's Test Kitchen, heat the oven to 200 degrees, then turn it off).

Mind you, even when a little denser than planned, bread you make yourself beats store-bought any day of the week and twice on Sundays.