Korvar
Laser Snark
Hero Member
Posts: 880
Warning: Beard
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« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2010, 09:07:47 am » |
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Injuries to the decedent were insufficient to cause instantaneous death. However, they were exacerbated by a bleed into the pleural cavity caused when this physician's attempt to relieve pressure on the cardiopulmonary system lacerated the decedent's subclavian artery. This bleed is the immediate cause of death.
It is probable that a competent medical intervention could have saved the victim's life.
--Madeline Frost, M.D. I seriously doubt that Frost is capable of lying in relation to her professional life, that's inconsistent with everything we know about her. Nothing in the report specifies that the results were accidental. What sort of lying would you see there were the results deliberate? Frost is very precise with her words. If the result was deliberate, then a competent medical intervention did not save the patient's life, with 100% probability. Or that a competent medical intervention could have saved the patients life after the the bleed started - had such been attempted. |
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DavidG
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« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2010, 09:32:34 am » |
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It is probable that a competent medical intervention could have saved the victim's life.
I seriously doubt that Frost is capable of lying in relation to her professional life, that's inconsistent with everything we know about her. Nothing in the report specifies that the results were accidental. What sort of lying would you see there were the results deliberate? Frost is very precise with her words. If the result was deliberate, then a competent medical intervention did not save the patient's life, with 100% probability. Or that a competent medical intervention could have saved the patients life after the the bleed started - had such been attempted. Frost doesn't play with words. We can bend meanings that way, I don't think she can. (Intellectually yes, she will know how to do this. But I don't see a way for her to do this and be true to what she sees as important). And I still don't think anyone has demonstrated a logically compelling reason for her to do this. |
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jimsmyth
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« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2010, 05:11:45 pm » |
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Injuries to the decedent were insufficient to cause instantaneous death. However, they were exacerbated by a bleed into the pleural cavity caused when this physician's attempt to relieve pressure on the cardiopulmonary system lacerated the decedent's subclavian artery. This bleed is the immediate cause of death.
It is probable that a competent medical intervention could have saved the victim's life.
--Madeline Frost, M.D. I seriously doubt that Frost is capable of lying in relation to her professional life, that's inconsistent with everything we know about her. Nothing in the report specifies that the results were accidental. What sort of lying would you see there were the results deliberate? Frost is very precise with her words. If the result was deliberate, then a competent medical intervention did not save the patient's life, with 100% probability. She stated that it was probable that a competent medical competent medical intervention could have saved the patient's live. She does not state this as certain (and I doubt she would). She does not say that a competent medical intervention WOULD have saved the patient's life, or that she chose to emply a competent medical intervention for that purpose. I think she's carefully walking all around the subject without actually lying about it. |
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"I wanted to tell you both. I've met someone."
"Danny, that's good," his mother said, sounding strange and strained and cautious. "What's--"
"His name's Grayson. He works for the State Department."
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InkRose
Full Member
Posts: 180
Whisky, watches, and words I do <3
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« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2010, 10:35:56 am » |
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I'm inclined to agree with Jimsmyth here. It was, in fact, my first impression that Frost was clearly saying she killed Melinda, without explicitly saying as much of course. A competent intervention could probably have fixed the arterial bleeding, had Melinda been in an OR instead of the floor of her home. She clearly states her actions directly caused the girl's death, however, and I can't quite bring myself to believe that Frost wasn't skilled enough to perform the incision correctly (of course it's possible Melinda just budged at an unfortunate moment despite being pinned by - IIRC - Lau). I can't really picture her outright lying either, so that's where I ended up.
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miminnehaha
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« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2010, 11:49:35 am » |
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Forgive me, please, for lack of appropriate quotes (I know one of you will supply if deemed useful)-- I *never* read this as Frost killing Melinda. I thought she was just being practical- she tried to help, but her skills didn't suit the situation.
That said, I seem to recall from the episode that one victim was shot while he was under a car? Made his actually being shot with an actual gun impossible. What does that say about the line-of-sight argument? Which is moot, with the Bloody Larry example.
Also, when we were first reading it, didn't we all feel the same "you can put away the scalpel now" reaction? So... I don't think that supports Frost finding the girl threatening.
To summarize: this is all to characterization of Frost: option A- willing to dispatch Gamms's, including Gamma-Chaz if necessary, or Option B: evaluated the state of post-traumatic Chaz (and his similarity to herself) and willing to admit fallability. I kind of have to lean towards B myself.
Side-note: my computer is down. As down as a specimen on Frost's exam table. I miss my fandom!!! Do we have a bench for that? 'Cause I need cookies!
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"I was waiting for the dotted yellow. I'm not Chaz." It was a rich, hallucinatory web of geometry...
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jimsmyth
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« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2010, 08:16:21 pm » |
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We have a bench for that.
It's downloadable.
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"I wanted to tell you both. I've met someone."
"Danny, that's good," his mother said, sounding strange and strained and cautious. "What's--"
"His name's Grayson. He works for the State Department."
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miminnehaha
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« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2010, 09:28:04 pm » |
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See? Is my fandom not manifestly fabulous?!
**thanks, Jim.
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"I was waiting for the dotted yellow. I'm not Chaz." It was a rich, hallucinatory web of geometry...
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DavidG
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« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2010, 10:53:38 am » |
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She stated that it was probable that a competent medical competent medical intervention could have saved the patient's live.
She does not state this as certain (and I doubt she would). She does not say that a competent medical intervention WOULD have saved the patient's life, or that she chose to emply a competent medical intervention for that purpose.
I think she's carefully walking all around the subject without actually lying about it.
Whereas I don't think Frost tiptoes around anything. She either approaches it directly -- I tried, I failed -- or she doesn't talk about it at all. |
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DavidG
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« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2010, 11:01:37 am » |
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That said, I seem to recall from the episode that one victim was shot while he was under a car? Made his actually being shot with an actual gun impossible. What does that say about the line-of-sight argument? There's a distinction between having line of sight on the victim and having line of sight along the bullet trajectory, Melissa doesn't need that latter, but I don't think we have anything to say that she ever attacked anyone she couldn't see at the time. Idlewood could quite easily stop her from ever seeing anyone at all, much like Bloody Larry. If she never sees you, how can she target you, how can she know you to decide to target you. |
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Elizabeth Bear
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« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2010, 08:07:57 pm » |
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That's assuming she ever convinces herself she doesn't need the Gun....
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chaz: "As if puberty weren't stressful enough."
Todd: "See? That's why we're better than all those other law enforcement agencies. Correct use of the subjunctive."
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jimsmyth
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« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2010, 09:23:13 pm » |
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That's assuming she ever convinces herself she doesn't need the Gun....
Her mythology seems quite fixated on the Gun being something other than her. I would see her as carving on out of soap, or making some other cheap prop, before doing without. ("Look out! She's got a drawing of a gun, and she isn't afraid to use it!") I would let her watch The A-Team (plywood barriers stop guns), and not Johnny Dangerously ("This is an 88 Magnum. It shoots through schools."), though. Can one alter a mythology by toying with underlying assumptions? Well, can one other than Duke do so? |
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"I wanted to tell you both. I've met someone."
"Danny, that's good," his mother said, sounding strange and strained and cautious. "What's--"
"His name's Grayson. He works for the State Department."
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Elizabeth Bear
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« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2010, 10:05:53 pm » |
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Depends. Are you as smart as Clemson McCain?
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chaz: "As if puberty weren't stressful enough."
Todd: "See? That's why we're better than all those other law enforcement agencies. Correct use of the subjunctive."
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jimsmyth
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« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2010, 10:56:36 pm » |
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Depends. Are you as smart as Clemson McCain?
That, then , would be a 'yes'. (To the theory part, not to the intelligence part. I don't have enough data for that.) Maybe we should teach physics to all the Gammas, so they'll know what they're doing is impossible? Or biology, so they'll be aware of how much real-world energy it takes to do those things, and they collapse after using a gammability? I suspect they wouldn't care about things that attack their mythology directly, though. But McCain proves that mythologies can adapt, given new information. I'd say there's hope for Susannah Greenwood, at least. Less so for Bloody Larry. |
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"I wanted to tell you both. I've met someone."
"Danny, that's good," his mother said, sounding strange and strained and cautious. "What's--"
"His name's Grayson. He works for the State Department."
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MadGastronomer
Guest
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« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2010, 12:21:36 am » |
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Her mythology seems quite fixated on the Gun being something other than her. I would see her as carving on out of soap, or making some other cheap prop, before doing without. Not just on it being something other than her, but on it being very specific guns, ones that belonged to her family. |
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